Business Builders Podcast

Presenting with Impact and Authority

• Brenton Gowland & Ron Tomlian • Season 4 • Episode 67

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This episode explores the art of public speaking and presentation mastery. It addresses common fears, shares practical strategies, and provides insights into effective preparation, delivery, and audience engagement. Whether you’re a natural speaker or find the idea of presenting daunting, you’ll gain valuable tips on improving your presentation skills and communicating your message with confidence.

Key Topics Covered:

1. The Fear of Public Speaking:

  • Common fears and misconceptions around public speaking.
  • Personal experiences with public speaking, including early memories and overcoming initial fears.


2. The Importance of Preparation:

  • The role of preparation in building confidence and reducing nerves.
  • Strategies for effective preparation, including understanding your audience, structuring content, and practicing.
  • The value of rehearsing in front of a mirror, recording yourself, and seeking feedback from others.


3. Delivering with Confidence:

  • The significance of body language, voice control, and clarity in delivering a presentation.
  • Tips on how to avoid distractions and engage the audience.
  • The “rule of threes” in communication: focusing on three key points to convey your message effectively.


4. Engaging Your Audience:

  • Techniques for starting a presentation strong and making an impact from the beginning.
  • The use of storytelling to connect with the audience and make your message memorable.
  • Methods for interacting with the audience, including live polls, raising hands, and encouraging participation.


5. Handling Questions and Answers:

  • Strategies for managing Q&A sessions with composure and clarity.
  • How to listen actively, seek clarification, and respond effectively to questions.
  • The importance of staying on topic and being honest when you don’t know the answer.


6. Key Takeaways and Practical Advice:

  • The critical role of preparation in successful presentations.
  • Encouragement for continuous improvement and self-assessment to refine presentation skills.
  • Insights on how every business leader can enhance their communication abilities for better influence and leadership.

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Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Business Builders Podcast. Until next time, KEEP ON BUILDING !!

Brenton Gowland:

Hey there, Business Builders, do you remember the first time you had to speak in public? Whether you're a natural or a bit terrified, presenting to an audience can be one of the biggest challenges for any business leader. In this episode, we focus on strategies for preparation, delivery and connecting with your audience, so stay tuned to discover how to overcome nerves and take your presentation skills to the next level. Well, welcome to the Business Builders podcast. We are your hosts. I am Brenton Gowland.

Ron Tomlian:

And I'm Ron tomlian.

Brenton Gowland:

And Ron, what would you say people's biggest fear is?

Ron Tomlian:

Well, I know that in speaking to a lot of business people and business leaders, but I think public in general, it's about presenting to a group of people. It's, it's the number one fear that people talk about in terms of their interactions, is presenting to an audience.

Brenton Gowland:

Do you remember the first time you ever had to do public speaking?

Ron Tomlian:

Yes, I do.

Brenton Gowland:

Tell me about it. Were you scared?

Ron Tomlian:

No.

Brenton Gowland:

You weren't? Well, You're a bit of a savont, aren't you.

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah, yeah, no, no, when I say I wasn't scared, I was still at school. And I think this is one of the things that our education system is finally grabbing onto, is I know a lot of kids are getting more opportunities nowadays to present while they're still at school. And it was something that I did when I was in grade five. I think that's the first time I had to present it. Probably I'd had some bad experiences before then, but getting up in front of a group, but because we were forced to do it at school, I got used to it. In fact, I got not only got used to it, I quite enjoyed it.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah, I did a bit of it at school. I enjoyed it. I froze on stage a couple of times when I was somewhere between year eight and year 12, and that was pretty hard,

Ron Tomlian:

yeah.

Brenton Gowland:

But when it came to acting, I really enjoyed that. But I remember the first time I had to speak publicly in a professional sense, and I was terrified.

Ron Tomlian:

Oh yeah, yeah. And, and that's, it's a common experience, I think, that people have, you know, for instance, I'd love debating when I was at school, but I would never do acting. I realized now that was a mistake. But by the same token, in different situations, people can feel very comfortable, and in other situations, they can feel very uncomfortable, and it's basically the same thing. So we're going to unpack that a little bit today and talk about one of the things we'll talk about is how to overcome nerves, all that type of thing. But basically, we're going to talk today about presenting when it's more one way communication than anything else it's it's presenting when there isn't a lot of opportunity, some but not a lot of opportunity for feedback. So you are presenting, you're influencing, you're giving information. And the idea is that you want to get something across to a group of people.

Brenton Gowland:

Great. Okay, so if you've just joined us, we are on our effective communication series. And if you go back a few episodes, maybe five or six, we launched the effective communication series. Then we talked about the art of listening. Then we talked about asking questions. How to ask the right questions, five questions every leader should be able to ask their staff and employees difficult conversations, which was a great one, non verbal communication. And then today we're talking about mastering presentations Ron,

Ron Tomlian:

you could call it public speaking. People. Call it all sorts of different things, but it's when you have to get up in front of a group of people, and that could be two people or 500 people.

Brenton Gowland:

And like anything, it always starts with preparation.

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah. So what we're going to talk about today is is four key things, preparation, delivery, engagement and handling, questions and answers.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah. Okay, great.

Ron Tomlian:

So try to bunch it into four key headings, and that starts, as you say, with preparation. And the reason I think a lot of people fear public speaking is because they have this idea that public speaking means getting up in front of a group of people without any preparation. In other words, they've been asked to speak in front of a group of people, and they're on the spot, you can do that. But if you're being asked to present ideas, present influence people and so on, it's much better to have the opportunity to prepare something beforehand. So preparation, it's one of the key elements and and if you have the opportunity to do this, I think you can overcome a lot of the nerves that are associated with presenting in public.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah, and let's be honest, it's like anything. Once you start doing something, then you get used to it, the nerves become less but you have to repeat, repeat, repeat,

Ron Tomlian:

If you want to get good. At public speaking. Guess what you've got to do. Practice it. Just do it.

Brenton Gowland:

Look for opportunities.

Ron Tomlian:

And it's it can be very confronting, but it's the best way I

Brenton Gowland:

know for me early on, whenever I used to do a presentation, I'd be madly nervous just before we did it, but as soon as I was a minute or two into it, if I had done the preparation, the nerves disappeared within a couple of minutes, absolutely, because I was in the throw of it, and now I was, I think our imaginations are the things that cause those nerves about what could be, what if I fail? What if I don't remember something? What if I falter?

Ron Tomlian:

What if you freeze? Yeah, you talked about freezing. And did you die?

Brenton Gowland:

Oh, I died. Well, I went and hid in the toilet for the rest of the day. I was traumatized.

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah, absolutely. But stop, you survived. And that's the thing. I think a lot of people, when they think about making a mistake in a very public way, that it's going to kill them. It won't. Other people will empathize with you. Yeah, I did that once. Ask for if you ask other people, most people have gone through some terrible mistake that they've made in public. As an example, I was presenting awards. I used to be asked to present awards when I was in charge of sponsorship for an organization I worked for, and instead of saying thank you very much to the person who was helping me, I said, spank you very much, really. Oh, I died on stage. But you know what I survived.

Brenton Gowland:

Is that some sort of throwaway joke line that you used to use.

Ron Tomlian:

no, no, I just for some reason, it came out of my mouth and it got a huge laugh at the end of the day. It wasn't a good feeling at the time, but I survived. And you get used to the fact that you can get through these things.

Brenton Gowland:

You're more likely to make those kind of faux pas if you haven't done your preparation absolutely often. I have foreign parents, and they're Dutch. Well, one of them was Dutch. One of them was Australian. That's how we ended up here. Yay. Long story short, when you have, like, a European background and your mother's native language was Dutch somehow, and I don't know how it happens, but they get all their idioms backwards. You know all the things that they say, and I can't give you examples straight off the top of my head, but all I know is I would say something that I thought was a saying when I was younger, and then people are going, No, that's it's the other way around, or it's this, or it's that. And I'm like, but that's what my mom used to say, because, yeah, you just they, they get these little things wrong in the sayings. And I remember when I started nucleus, which is a business that I own, that when I used to get the staff together, and I had to do impromptu talks, sometimes the things I would say were reminiscent of what my mother used to say, and I'd say something, and obviously people would find that amusing. And so they created this thing called the Book of brenton's, as in things that I said that were unintentional, double entendres, or, you know, whatever you gotta be famous for something. So I was and but what I did, I thought, I gotta stop this. And so it really did come down to the preparation. And I found that the more I prepared, the less my tongue would betray me.

Ron Tomlian:

absolutely right now, if you're going to prepare, the number one thing you've got to you've got to know is who you're talking to. And we've talked about this before, in general, because it's like marketing, same deal. Yeah. So understand who you're speaking to, what their needs are, what they're going to be interested in in your topic, or what you're trying to influence them with, and how they want to be delivered in the information. In other words, humor sometimes works. Is this going to work for this audience?

Brenton Gowland:

Well, it also depends on the size of your audience. So if you're presenting to a boardroom of six people, that's going to be extremely different to presenting to an auditorium of

Ron Tomlian:

150 people. Absolutely right? So you've got to be adaptable.

Brenton Gowland:

Or at a luncheon, and were you speaking over people eating?

Ron Tomlian:

So people often talk about know your audience, but also know the environment you're going to be presenting in. Okay, as you say, if you're in a boardroom versus an auditorium, very different.

Brenton Gowland:

Versus a breakfast meeting, where everyone's eating their breakfast and you're dealing with clacking plates. How many times have you ever talked over clacking plates?

Ron Tomlian:

It's a pain, but you can get over it if you if you put a filter on and just ignore it. The other The next thing I think, after you you know who you're speaking to is why you're speaking to them. What's your why? And oftentimes, people tend to think in terms of, what do I want to get across to them, as opposed to thinking, how can I help them?

Brenton Gowland:

Well, very often, in business terms, you'll be directed as to the topic. People will say you need to pitch. On something, or people will ask you to come speak in events about an area of your expertise. Or you'll be asked to give an overview of what your department's doing in X to X number of people. So part of that focus that we need to have on what the topic is in a business sense, will often be determined, determined for us. But the why is it goes back to where we were talking about asking questions, and why have I been asked to talk about this? Is a great question.

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah. And, you know, comes down to what's in it for them, yeah, what are they? What are they going to get out of this? So my purpose is to help them in some way. That's why I say. Think about it. From the audience perspective, they've given you a gift of their time. How are you going to give them the best opportunity to either be informed or persuaded or inspired? What's the best way that you can do that? What's the purpose that you've got for this? What's there? What's in it for me?

Brenton Gowland:

And you know, in all honesty, if you focus on that, and the fact that you're there to deliver something for someone else, and you don't focus on yourself, that really helps with the nerves.

Ron Tomlian:

Absolutely because you're helping people.

Brenton Gowland:

That's the biggest thing I've ever found, because my purpose is to educate, inform, entertain that group of people, and they only think about themselves. We know that we only think about what benefits us when you're presenting to a group of people, they only care about what they care about. So we're there to serve them in some capacity.

Ron Tomlian:

I think the other thing too is that when you have someone speaking to you, I don't know anyone who goes into a presentation and thinks, I hope this guy falls apart. I'm really looking forward to them not delivering value to me. People want you to deliver value to them. People want you to succeed and do something useful for them. So if you come at it from that point of view, I want to help people, and they want to be helped, then it makes the whole the last thing I'm going to talk about is preparing yourself mentally, but having that attitude to start with makes a big difference to the way you will go into the whole presentation.

Brenton Gowland:

And that's true, because people want to be at ease when you're speaking, and so they're looking for the cues to go, oh, I don't have to be stressed about whether this person is going to be nervous. We can just listen to the content, because they take a moment whenever you deliver a presentation, first few minutes are important. Don't get stressed about that.

Ron Tomlian:

We'll talk about then in an under engagement,

Brenton Gowland:

yeah, but that just helps the audience to find their place, to feel relaxed, as you say, and they are rooting for you because I don't know about you, but whenever I watch an awkward movie, and there's something really awkward happening, I leave the room because I can't stand it, and it's the same for me. If I see someone dying on stage, I just want to crawl in a hole myself, and I'm part of the audience, and I've died on stage, so I know what it's like, but people don't want to feel that pain. They want you to be succeeding. So, you know, they're backing you 100%

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah, and that's

Brenton Gowland:

I want to learn something from this person.

Ron Tomlian:

That's really important in terms of your the attitude you go into a presentation with, the next thing is structuring your content, and that's just having a logical flow of ideas, not jumping from one thing to another, to another and then back again it. Just have trying to get your ideas into a flow, so you lead from one idea to the next, and they build on each other.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah, and I find a really good structure, and you've already kind of indicated, but once you know your purpose, what you're talking about, and why you're talking about it, I often find if you want to build that kind of flow, you start with what do I want them to take away from this? So like many other things, like creating a brief you start at the end, what do I want them to understand when I'm finished? And you start with that. So you bring that back. How do I introduce that at the start and then thread those messages all the way through what I'm talking about, in the structure that you're talking about that will build, build, build, and then deliver this message that they're going to retain.

Ron Tomlian:

Dale Carnegie, you know how to win friends and influence people. Often talked about, tell them what you're going to tell them, tell them, and then tell them what you did, tell them. So it's about reinforcement, to a large extent, 100% so your structure should be about introducing the idea talking about a particular subject, and then concluding with a summary of what you talked about, because it makes it easier for them to remember when you have that reinforcement in, yeah. And you talk about the rule of threes, oh yeah. A lot of times, if you put any more than three things up, people don't remember them. So the rule of I've often talked about this when I'm talking about presentations with people just three ideas at the most that you want to get across at any given time. It's like in advertising, you know, I would say one thing. Thing, just one thing get across, because people are giving you their attention fleetingly, and you aren't going to be able to get a whole bunch of ideas across at any given time. So great, great thing, rule of threes. And I think we've talked about that previously when we're talking about communication as well visual aids. And there's another thing that, don't overdo it, please. Yeah, death by PowerPoint, all that sort of thing. A lot of times people are there. And if you've got presence, and if you've got a nice delivery, which we'll talk about in a minute, visual aids can help, but make sure they help. They there's not the vampire effect, where everybody's looking at your visual aids like a PowerPoint presentation rather than listening to you. You know, I've see it so many times when I get students at universities to do presentations, and they put whole sentences up on the PowerPoint slide, and people are reading those rather than listening to what they're saying. So, you know, personal opinion, use photographs, images, that sort of thing, to get your message across, rather than words. If you've got to use words, there's fewer the words, the better up on a screen, and it should be only to reinforce what you were saying, not to provide extra information. Okay, so visual aids. Use them sparingly, and don't forget, you know, people use technology, and they want things to revolve and spin and appear and disappear. It all is incredibly distracting.

Brenton Gowland:

Well, unless it's part of your presentation. You know, if you can use a video or something like that, then, but you would draw everyone's attention to the screen. I never do all that transitiony stuff. I just find to be a pain in the butt.

Ron Tomlian:

One of the best presentations I ever saw was a guy talking and using a flip chart and just writing a few things up, drawing diagrams as he went. It had nothing to do with technology, and you can, you know, there are other visual aids as well. You can bring in props. Don't forget that if they help, yep, but only if they help, not to distract.

Brenton Gowland:

And you can do all sorts of other things. Like you could have games that you perform, I'm not kidding, like, oh yeah, games that can get a point across, yeah, get a few people up on stage and makes your life a lot easier.

Ron Tomlian:

Talk about that in the engagement as well. There's things you can get people to do. I'm talking here specifically about visual aids.

Brenton Gowland:

I just did a series of presentations recently on cyber security. I use the screen a lot like we'll display something and talk about it. Display something and talk about it. But I also find just having a word or a sentence or some such thing on a slide with just a color, no fancy anything, and it can be your brand colors, all that kind of stuff. You can still have your logo somewhere, if you need to. But I really believe just the most effective way to communicate is just having, sometimes just a single word on the screen or some sort of just visual communication tool, like we're talking when you have a diagram, make it really, really simple, because otherwise you can't take the audience on that journey. If they're trying to understand some intricate graphic, and they're not going to see it. So I always say to people when they're doing a presentation, if they want to get something across really complex and I'm working with a group at the moment. I'm training about 12 of them to present to a conference of their peers, and they have some very complex presentations to do. I always say, create a takeaway. Create a couple of a four pages that you can give to people as a takeaway. People love takeaways. At the end of a thing where you have the complex information. So separate the complex information from what you present on screen.

Ron Tomlian:

Yep, absolutely right. And to that point, practice beforehand. You know, rehearse in the old days when technology wasn't quite as advanced it is. Now do it in front of a mirror. Nowadays, we've all got devices called phones that have cameras in them. Record yourself while you're doing it, and then have a look back at it and see what you can improve. See how you're coming across.

Brenton Gowland:

So with this group of people that I'm training at the moment, I'm getting them to submit all their presentations with a PowerPoint and a video they've done on their iPhone, because that's where we start. Then we provide feedback to the presentation they've given us via video. Give them a chance to improve their presentation or make some modifications. Then we do a peer presentation, where all the people presenting present to each other, and we video it, and then we video the feedback, and then we get them to do it again. And then we bring in some of their industry peers, and they present to those industry peers before they present to the group. So they've presented three or four times before they actually go and do this to the bigger crowd.

Ron Tomlian:

So practice, get confident by knowing your material before you actually have to do it.

Brenton Gowland:

It irons out the new. Nerves. It if you can, I always say, if you can, have a test audience. And we always used to do this, and still do this when we're doing pitches. I don't care how senior people are. When I'm running a team who's doing a pitch, I get them to rehearse, and we give each other feedback, and by the time we're in that room with whoever we're pitching to, we've done that presentation five, six times, and we know how to bounce off of each other. And like I said, I will have senior people who are high level execs, and I will be running training drills with them.

Ron Tomlian:

Sounds fantastic. Oh, it is. I want to come and do one of your courses.

Brenton Gowland:

Everyone, when you tell them they're going to do this, they're like, oh, what?

Ron Tomlian:

They're like,

Brenton Gowland:

I've done this a million times. Why do I need to do this? Exactly because we all need to do it as a team. We need to be able to present as a group. So we need to practice presenting as a group.

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah. And I think the last thing too, is, in all that, recognize that you've got you're going to have nerves and prepare yourself mentally. Nerves are natural. Nerves are good. If you're not nervous, I'd be worried, Yeah, because nerves, I mean, there's a downside. It can if the if you get over nervous, but nerves, when we're talking about nerves, it can build up a little bit of positive stress, and that's often comes across as excitement and enthusiasm.

Brenton Gowland:

The more you do this, the nerves turn into like, I call it twitch fibers, you get that nervous energy. And I think it's possible for that, even that nervous energy, to disappear, but when that disappears, it's just become run of the mill. And that's it's okay, but I think it's good to have a little bit of anxiousness about what you're about to do. Well, you perform better.

Ron Tomlian:

You often talk to entertainers. You know, people who perform on stage, singing or playing musical instruments, whatever. Oftentimes, people have been doing this for 40 years still talk about the fact they get nervous beforehand, and that's a positive thing from their perspective, because it's a very separation. It gives them enthusiasm. It gets them charged. It gives them energy. And the last thing you want to do is see someone standing in front of you who looks like they're about to fall asleep.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah. So that really covers off on preparation. So you can see preparation. In summary, it irons out the wrinkles. It helps you understand what you're going to do. It really gives you confidence. I think the better prepared you are, the more confident you'll be going into giving you a presentation and delivering it absolutely.

Ron Tomlian:

Next point is delivery, and that is all the things we sort of talked about last time when we're talking about non verbals. There's what you're going to say, very important, but it's also your body language, your voice attenuation, your voice control? Those things are really critical, because people get so much information and meaning from the way you're presenting. So it comes down to, how do I look? And that's thinking about, what is this audience expecting? What's my stance? What gestures Am I using? Are they going to reinforce what I'm saying, or are they going to detract and distract from what I'm saying? Getting comfortable with the way you present bodily and the way you present with your voice.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah, and then again, it kind of overlaps with preparation, because to be able to consider these things and what we're going to do on stage means rehearsal. I presented, as I said earlier, to a group of people about cyber security last month, and I put up a camera in the back of the room to video myself, because I wanted to capture it and see how I did. I watched it back, and I was horrified. They thought it was great, but I just thought, wow. At this point in my life, I've still got so much I need to do to improve. But the reason that I needed to improve that so much is that was the first time I delivered that particular presentation, and I need to iron out the wrinkles. So, like you said right at the start, the only way you get good at these things is practice, practice, practice. And that means deliver, deliver, deliver.

Ron Tomlian:

Absolutely. The next thing in this whole area, and you've just beautifully segued into it, is clarity and brevity. And you know, if I look at the speakers who come and present to those groups of CEOs that I work with, the biggest problem that they have is that they want to deliver so much information and so much insight that the message gets lost in the amount the volume of what they're trying to present. So have three points that you want to get across, as we discussed earlier, rule of three. Have three things that you want people to walk away with, clearly deliver those things, speak concisely and don't use long winded explanations or jargon. It's so important that you are clear about what you're trying to get across. So this is part of the delivery, clarity and brevity. Make sure that you have thought about and. And if you're practicing it, you don't go down rabbit holes. You don't go through long winded explanations, because you've decided on what is important and how you're most concisely going to deliver that. And nobody, nobody will criticize you for having or spending shorter than your allotted time on a presentation. That's very true, actually, because there's always time for questions then, and it becomes more relevant.

Brenton Gowland:

How many times have you been in a presentation that's supposed to go for a certain amount of time and it goes for less and people go, that was good. That was really cool. Yeah, we can, you know, then you can fill it up with questions if you need to.

Ron Tomlian:

Conversely, how many times have you gone to a presentation there's supposed to be 20 minutes and it turns out to be 40, and you think, oh my gosh, they have a couple.

Brenton Gowland:

To that point. And I know we'll get to this later on, but I would, every single time if I could finish early and give people time to ask questions, because then you get the engagement, which we'll talk about shortly. Yeah, absolutely, but the brevity thing is really tough, and that is practice, and that comes from getting feedback from other people. Sometimes we're very good at self assessing, but sometimes we can't see because we're the ones in that position. So even if it's just presenting to one other person to get their feedback, that's a start. That's fantastic, but it's someone who's got to be honest with you, not someone who's going to pat you on the back and say, Aren't you wonderful? You need someone who's going to talk to you straight. But I still prefer presenting to a few people. Oh yeah, it's having the feedback.

Ron Tomlian:

It's a great way of getting good and more honed in terms of the presentation you're doing.

Brenton Gowland:

But let's also be honest, sometimes you can't do that. That's why just sticking your iPhone somewhere and recording yourself and then watching it back will at least give you a second viewpoint of the presentation from someone else's angle. It's you seeing you. But still, it can be quite confronting, but that's the bare minimum I would do, is record it, or what I used to do was present to a mirror when I didn't record things.

Ron Tomlian:

In the old days. But that can be distracting too, because you're trying to do two things at once, assess yourself and deliver.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah. So those iPhones and those Android phones are just, in some sense, is a godsend. They are a great tool.

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah? The final thing, and this is what people, especially people who don't feel comfortable presenting often forget, is, don't try and be somebody else. Be yourself. And don't try and and think, Well, I've seen this guy do a TED talk, so I'll be like him. You can be like him, but it won't come across as you.

Brenton Gowland:

And this is I, in my opinion, one of the hardest things to do, yeah, because it's a bit of vulnerability, because will people really like me if I'm myself?

Ron Tomlian:

But authenticity builds trust and makes you more relatable, so you've got to work at it. But Be yourself. Be yourself. Tell your own stories. Tell your own stories. Well, that gets into the next part, which is engagement. And so part of engagement is connecting with the audience, and that's make doing things like starting with some type of engaging story at the beginning, or engaging fact, or something that hooks people in to your presentation, something that's going to be relevant to them and is going to get them excited about what you're going to talk about. So connecting with the audience by starting off strongly is a really good way to engage with people.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah, but starting off strongly, that's great language that can be scary thinking, How do I start strong?

Ron Tomlian:

Well, talk to other people. Ask them, how what have you seen? You know, I just talked about looking at TED Talks and trying not to be somebody else, but look at presentations that other people have done. How have they stated and got people involved?

Brenton Gowland:

That is the basis of all creativity, right? Because there's a saying there's nothing new under the sun. So when I go and or when graphic designers in general, because I've worked with a bunch of them, when we go and do a job, we'll often start with creating a mood board or some sort of reference, like a visual reference, about where we want to go. And that involves going out and sourcing a bunch of other work and deciding what we're going to use to inspire us. He used to have a boss who used to say, Well, why don't you just go to the zoo and look at the color schemes on animals? I'm like, well, that's a good idea. We'll go do that. But anyway, you gather material to inspire you. So in the same vein, who are your favorite speakers? What do they do? But starting strongly sometimes just means making a statement.

Ron Tomlian:

Oh, absolutely. It can be, I'm going to put something out there and get your reaction to it. Yeah, it could be I'm going to tell a story that helps you understand what I'm going to be talking about in a relatable way.

Brenton Gowland:

If you've got a story in your own life that can connect you, connect people in I think that. That's really important, because that'll build rapport between the audience and yourself very quickly.

Ron Tomlian:

If you think about the way we used to communicate, before there were books, before there were stone tablets, it was all storytelling, and some cultures still use storytelling as the way to communicate information, even large amounts of information.

Brenton Gowland:

So the point I want to make about starting strong is it doesn't mean you have to be someone you're not. You can be very quiet. Look some of the best presentations, and we'll obviously talk about this as we progress in a moment is someone getting on stage and feeling comfortable enough not to talk, but just stand at the lectern or whatever and look out at the audience for a moment or 230, seconds of silence before you speak that'll capture everyone's attention. Depending on the venue, you'll have everyone hanging by a thread because they're like, what's going to happen? Is this person going to die in front of me? Or they're looking really confident? What the heck's going to what are they going to say that'll gather everyone in that's a strong start just being silent for 30 seconds and saying a few words and then getting into it.

Ron Tomlian:

You know, we talked about entertainers and them doing presentations. One of the great anecdotes about Dean Martin was when he did a Las Vegas performance, he would often walk out on the stage and he had this, have a cigarette. He had the shtick where he seemed to be drunk, yeah. And he would walk out on stage with a drink in his hand, and he'd look out at the audience and say, nothing, yeah, then look at his drink and look out at the audience and look at it. And this would go on for 30 seconds, which doesn't seem like a long time, but when nothing's happening, and people would start laughing and so on. And he would then say, What are you doing in my dressing room? Yeah, you know that gathered and that gave people an idea about what his persona was like. It gave people an opportunity to laugh at him and to start the performance off. It was incredibly relatable. It was a great way to get people involved.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah, and think about, think about that. There was a mechanic, there was a drink, there was his swagger, but then it wasn't some huge, big, blustery moment. It was quiet and subtle and unexpected.

Ron Tomlian:

And there's the this thing, what is going to get your audience involved and what you're saying?

Brenton Gowland:

So many speakers come running out on stage nowadays. Tony Robbins is Tony Robbins, but try to copy Tony Robbins, you know what I mean? And it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's if it works for you, it works for you. But I'm just like, I can't hear anything until you slow down man.

Ron Tomlian:

yeah. And and again, that goes back to what we were talking about, what? Who is your audience? You know, people have to be adaptable. And this is one of the things about engaging. You have to be adaptable to your audience. If you are going to do a business presentation in the United States, I'm going to tell you, most Australians need to ramp up their energy, because that's what's expected in that particular culture. You take American presenters and bring them to Australia, and they need to tone things down by about 50% because people aren't listening to the rah rah rats that people in the United States expect. They want more toned down factual information and presented in a way that is more relatable to the Australian culture.

Brenton Gowland:

So that brings us back to our strong start. We talked about knowing our audience in preparation and a strong start is a really well thought out, either mechanic and mechanics can be all sorts of things, like there's applications and programs nowadays where you can you could start with a survey and get live responses on screen.

Ron Tomlian:

You could ask a question, get people to discuss, and then, and that's the next point. Is interaction. How do I get people interacting with me and with each other so that it's relatable to their own experiences? And I know I use discussion, talk to the person next to you, talk in a group.

Brenton Gowland:

That's a good idea. Well, depends on how it depends on the situation you're in.

Ron Tomlian:

If you're in a theater style that makes a little bit more difficult.

Brenton Gowland:

If you've got 20 or 30 people, what you're saying is really easy. If you're in a theater where everyone's sitting next to each other, I wouldn't be doing that.

Ron Tomlian:

No, and that's again, about understanding the environment that you're in.

Brenton Gowland:

If you if you use the tech tools, you can run surveys, polls, get them to put in a word, have them play all sorts of things, but a really simple mechanic is getting people to raise their hands, giving them multiple choice questions. For example, what's your skill level with AI? Is it total novice? Don't really know anything. Are you intermediate, so you're playing with it using a bit, or are you starting to get more advanced. I just want to place the room hands up. When I did this presentation, I expected everyone to go intermediate, but 98% of people completely had no connection with it, which surprises me at this point in time, but

Ron Tomlian:

Which means which village you had to change your presentation on the fly.

Brenton Gowland:

Because I was expecting the rung. Wrong, but there you go. But that that, and you've just raised a point, getting that feedback gives you the ability to tailor that presentation to the people who are with you. Yeah, and

Ron Tomlian:

gaging the audience as you're going through your presentation, yep. Now I think people have got to be careful about this, because sometimes there can be misinterpretation as well. But you know, when you can you can hear your audience if they sigh at something, if they are shocked by something, that is feedback for you, have I achieved what I wanted to achieve in in terms of telling that story or in terms of giving that piece of information?

Brenton Gowland:

So from what we're saying there's a couple of reasons for engagement. One of them is to gain feedback yourself, to help you make sure the presentation is relevant. On the fly, can be difficult to do.

Ron Tomlian:

Can be just can be difficult, but it but you know, if you're only with a group of, let's say

Brenton Gowland:

10 people.

Ron Tomlian:

10 people, you can look at people's faces. You can look at their stances. You can watch what they're doing and seeing, well, I seem to be losing them. I need to tell a

Brenton Gowland:

And as you get up to 8090, 100 and above, that story. becomes very difficult.

Ron Tomlian:

Again. It depends on the environment that you're in. I think the last thing, and it hikes back to what we were just talking about, storytelling, is really that is an important element that is often forgotten, because people remember stories. I had a student that was in a marketing class of mine maybe 18 years ago, and I met him on the street just recently, and we were talking about the class and the information that were the content we were going through. And I said, Do you remember all that? He said, No, I don't remember that. But remember that, but I do remember the stories you told, and that's really important, because he remembered some of the important points, and he related them back to me, some of the important points of what we were talking about, not because of the way the academic or the intellectual material was presented, but because of the stories that I told to illustrate the point.

Brenton Gowland:

That's because a picture speaks 1000 words, and you can, with words, paint pictures and stories do that, yep, yep. So they they help us to relate something like something very common with the information we're trying to convey. And yeah, we are a people who build stories.

Ron Tomlian:

Now the final area that I want to cover in this is oftentimes people feel very in control during their formal presentation. Do they Well, I should say, if they've done the preparation, if they've been able to engage the audience and so on. What they really worry about when they're doing public speaking is, what if somebody asked me question and I can answer?

Brenton Gowland:

That's the part I love the most.

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah, but think about it

Brenton Gowland:

Becouse when you get to the question part, the hard work's done.

Ron Tomlian:

Some speakers will say, I'll do a speech, I'll do a presentation, but no questions.

Brenton Gowland:

Really, because, yeah, I know a very good example of that, but I can't mention who, but a very famous person who spoke at a American Chamber of Commerce.

Ron Tomlian:

And said, no questions.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah, that's correct. And I remember the host was like, What's the point of me being here?

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah, exactly. So you've got to learn to be able to handle questions and answers. And as you say, some people love that part of it, because I can demonstrate my knowledge, or I can get my point across far more effectively when I know exactly what people are specifically looking for in a question.

Brenton Gowland:

But let's also be fair, that's an example I just cited. The media was there. There was 500 people there, and questions can be laced with dynamite. Bbsolutely. And again, the environment that you're in we talked about this last time, if the media involved, you've got to be a lot more careful. I would probably be a little reticent to answer questions from the floor if there was 500 people in the room, but if there's 30 people in the room, 40 people in the room, 10 people in the room, particularly, it's a whole different affair.

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah, and it depends on who they are. And this is about getting to know your audience beforehand. So if you're going to handle questions, number one, listen effectively. Listen actively to what those people are saying. Don't assume you understand just because you've heard the words, okay, so pay attention to the questions clarify before responding, so that you are crystal clear on what that person is trying to ask. If you ever watch any presentations by Jordan Peterson, for example, he often will, will call people out, you know, media. He'll call people out for saying, listen, that's not a question. That's a statement. Kartstad is a question. Why don't you reframe it as a question? If you've really got something to ask? I think that's brilliant, because he's clarifying. Actually, intention here is not to ask a question, it's to make a statement.

Brenton Gowland:

Well, that's interesting, because that goes back to. That episode we did a few ago on asking questions, and that was the whole, remember that thing? That's what's been said, What have I heard, and what was meant? And if you can ask yourself those three things about the question that is being asked, that's really smart, because, like you just gave that example with Jordan Peterson, I've also seen people like Jordan Peterson then go. Let me tell you what I've just heard. I've heard you say x, y and z. So can you clarify for me, what is your actual question?

Ron Tomlian:

Be careful. Most people ask questions genuinely,

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah, but it's more like you have an ability to respond before you answer, and it's really about gathering information for yourself so you understand how to answer. If you don't understand what the question was, I would seek more information from that person.

Ron Tomlian:

Absolutely make sure you are clear about what's being asked. Yep, and stay composed.

Brenton Gowland:

What do you mean by that?

Ron Tomlian:

Well, oftentimes, even especially if it's a slightly tricky question, or if it's a question that you think maybe there's something more in it than that, people start to feel anger or frustration, or Haven't you been listening? You know, that's the first source of frustration. The whole idea is, if a person's asking a question, it's up to you to stay calm, seek clarification if it's not if it's not clear, and even when you're faced with tough questions, that you've got the opportunity to pause, take A breath, stay composed, though, because otherwise, if you react in a way that might be deemed as inappropriate or overly emotional, you've just lost all the intent that you've or all the insights that you've created in people,

Brenton Gowland:

That's the only thing people remember for that presentation.

Ron Tomlian:

That's right. So be very mindful of the way you're coming across, even if inside you might be fuming. So stay composed. If you don't know the answer to a question, say I don't know the answer. I'll get back to you.

Brenton Gowland:

Well, that gets back to that discussion we just had about seeking clarification, yeah, and being genuine too. And in everything, that's the right thing. I don't really know what the answer is, but a really good thing to do is, I don't I can't answer that right now. I don't have the right information. Come and see me after the presentation. I'll get your details, and I'll find a way to deal with that, and then make sure you follow up.

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah, don't just leave people hanging and then stay on topic. Oftentimes people start ask a question and gives you a platform for something else you want to talk about.

Brenton Gowland:

Did you say you're a politician.

Ron Tomlian:

Exactly right.

Brenton Gowland:

How many times have you seen that? Yeah. So you ask your question, and then they just tell you what they wanted to tell you about whatever their upcoming policy is. And you just go, Why do I bother?

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah, and they're trained to do that.

Brenton Gowland:

I know.

Ron Tomlian:

Quite frankly, they're trained to do that. But I would say, if you want to get your message across, of you want to inspire or persuade, people see through that a lot more effectively nowadays than they ever have before. So be very careful about drifting off topic. So stay on topic with you, with your responses, and you know in terms of questions and answers, don't be concerned about them, encourage them. But also have a bit of fun. You know, have a bit of fun with answering questions and relate it back if you can to things you talked about in your presentation, because it will help reinforce the ideas that you've got. Okay. Okay. So, in conclusion, four things that we talked about today, preparation, delivery, engagement and handling, questions and answers. Those are things that will make you structure your presentation and be be more confident in presenting to groups.

Brenton Gowland:

And look, in my humble opinion, we spent the most time talking about preparation, and there's a reason for that. Preparation is the key thing, if you can get the preparation right, these other things will naturally improve over time.

Ron Tomlian:

Absolutely, do you have the opportunity when you prepare to get better because of the practice and rehearsal? So if you're going to do any presentations, make sure you spend enough time in the preparation beforehand, and then have some fun when you actually doing the delivery.

Brenton Gowland:

Yep 100%. All right. Well, I think it would be great if you have a presentation coming up to apply those things, but I know that we've got a few presentations coming up in the next little while. Are we going to take anything away from this, or are we just experts Ron?

Ron Tomlian:

Well, I think I've got to do a presentation next week to one of my groups. I think the critical thing that I'm thinking about right now as we're speaking is, have I put enough time aside for the preparation, especially the rehearsal?

Brenton Gowland:

That's really interesting, isn't it, because life gets so busy. But I would take us back to when we launched this series, we gave ourselves a rating on our communication skills. I think I gave myself a 7.2 and you're a 6.5 we went through a matrix. Highly recommend you go and do that. I would say even the best presenters need to continually work on their game to get better. And I would say I'm when it comes to presenting in public, if I was going to give myself a rating on just that, I'd say I'm about 6.8 out of 10. I'm reasonably good, but there's a lot of improvement that I can do. So maybe if we just work on every time you do a presentation to rate yourself and review yourself, that's all I would aim for. Next time I'm presenting, I'm going to do just a little bit better.

Ron Tomlian:

And getting the opportunity for a bit of feedback, you know, say to people at the end, what do you think of that? What's one thing I could do better? If you could just do one thing better? Every time you did a presentation, Boy, that's a that's a real opportunity to get your presentation skills up.

Brenton Gowland:

Now look, the Business Builders podcast is all about talking to business builders, business leaders, who are growing their businesses. And I would say, if you're a business leader, this is not a choice that you have. You need to present. In fact, every time you talk to your staff in any kind of capacity, that's more than one person at a time, I'm not saying that's a presentation, but it's a similar effect. So you really need to work on the communication skills in terms of how you convey information and present to groups. It's one of the key skills of a business leader.

Ron Tomlian:

So on that note, it's goodbye from me.

Brenton Gowland:

And goodbye from me. We look forward to being back with you in a couple of weeks to carry on the effective communication series.