Business Builders Podcast
Business Builders Podcast
Effective Networking - Defining Your Purpose
Now that face-to-face meetings are back in force, it's time to refocus on our networking skills. So today we are launching a new 5-part series on effective networking. In this episode, we discuss the importance of defining your purpose for networking and how it relates to achieving your business goals.
The topics we cover in this episode are:
- Overview of the effective networking series.
- Why is it important to have a purpose for networking?
- How to establish your purpose for networking.
- Understanding the networking outcomes we want will help clarify our purpose.
- Understanding our long-term 10-year goals will temper our purpose.
- Our purpose will evolve, so how often should we review it?
Adapt_CO
Helping businesses find their new shape.
SA Business Builders
Business leaders social group based in South Australia
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Connect with Us:
- Follow the Business Builders Podcast to develop your leadership skills, build a successful business, and become an effective leader.
- Join the Business Builders Linkedin Page
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Business Builders Podcast. Until next time, keep building!
Today on The Business Builders podcast, we're launching a new series on effective networking. Now that we're back out meeting each other face to face after the easing of COVID restrictions, having a clearly defined purpose for networking is paramount if we want to achieve results. So in this episode, we're exploring how to define your purpose for networking. Well, welcome to the Business Builders podcast. We are your hosts. I am Brenton Gowland.
Ron Tomlian:And I'm Ron Tomlian.
Brenton Gowland:And, Ron, I heard on the grapevine that you're going to be spending some close personal time with camels coming up soon.
Ron Tomlian:Yes, I'm going on a camel track up in the Flinders Ranges and a couple of weeks time. So looking forward to that getting away, getting away from this dreary weather down here.
Brenton Gowland:Yeah, I gotta admit, I, one of my clients is got a conference coming up in Queensland. So they're sending me up to Queensland, and I'm really looking forward to going and seeing what the weather will be like up there, because I'm pretty sure. As opposed to South Australia, if you're listening internationally at the moment, we've been wet for a long time now. And usually we have really quite good springs where it's quite hot. Not this year. It's just rain, rain, rain, rain, rain.
Ron Tomlian:We can't complain about that being in the dry state on the driest continent. But it's still hard to get used to.
Brenton Gowland:At the moment as the wettest state is and it's pretty darn wet. But okay, I don't complain. Anyway, we've had some really great episodes in our business development series, which we just finished the other week with, how do you find a really great BD person for your team. And previous to that we had Bill Caskey from the Advanced Selling Podcast. Before that we had Ian Tennent, a Business Development Professional from Melbourne coming to speak to us and some really good topics. But it's time to move on.
Ron Tomlian:Yes.
Brenton Gowland:We're going to we're going to shift it up a gear and talk about a new series.
Ron Tomlian:Back to the Future. Back to the Future. Because our very first podcast over a year ago was on networking in the still one of the most popular. And we said in that podcast that there were a number of things we did the six top tips. That's right. But there are a number of things that need to be explored. So you know this is the time.
Brenton Gowland:I gotta tell you that, and because we get stats, obviously on who listens to what. Like in terms of volumes from what country and volumes of who's listening. That episode is the most listened to episode, to this day. Every week, it gets like another 50, 60 people listening to it, and it blows my mind. Because networking is that thing that a lot of people go looking for the answers. Even though there's a plethora of books on networking, people still go back to how do I improve my networking game?
Ron Tomlian:So we're going to take that challenge on for ourselves.
Brenton Gowland:Do you know, the reason I really like that we're going to be looking at this right now is because the whole, and I hate mentioning it. Like, don't mention COVID. But I'm going to mention it. COVID had us in this state of mind where we would not go out and talk to people obviously. And so networking changed. And for a long period of time, we're doing all the Zoom meetings. And now it's getting really difficult to get people into, as Bill Caskey was talking about the other week, into a webinar or into zoom meetings. They're becoming more and more seldom. So we really need to pick up those business networking skill sets again, and really push them forward because we can really embrace it again now. Meeting face to face.
Ron Tomlian:Yeah, it's fantastic. I love it. But you do get a bit rusty. And it's worth thinking about this whole question of networking. And starting with, what is the goal? And why do we do it?
Brenton Gowland:Yeah, well, it's like anything, if you don't use a muscle, it gets weaker. So you can just start up and you should always be reinventing, always working on how to get better. And we'll get into that today. But first,
Ron Tomlian:Our sponsors.
Brenton Gowland:Yes, and we're going to start with SA Business Builders, we had an event the other week. A very low key event. And it was a great time, lots of people coming together and having really good conversations. So I really like those low key events where we just go to a venue and and just talk with no set agenda.
Ron Tomlian:It really is the essence of what SA Business Builders is all about.
Brenton Gowland:And I think it's the essence of networking, because we'll get into that a little bit later today. But SA Business Builders was born out of a networking strategy, really. And it's brought together people for the essence of building better business relationships.
Ron Tomlian:So and of course, then there's Adapt_CO, which is you.
Brenton Gowland:Oh you're rushing me onto me, all right. Well Adapt_CO exist to come and help people sort out their marketing function within their business. And what I mean by that is we go in and we actually help you get your marketing right, and then we help you build the right framework around it so that six months, a years time or whatever it might be that you won't need us anymore because you'll be able to run your department successfully with your own team. That's the plan anyway.
Ron Tomlian:Fantastic idea.
Brenton Gowland:Yeah, so that's our sponsors. And we will now get stuck into our topic I reckon. So our topic, look, just give us an overview of, because we're starting a series today, everyone and the series, I think the series are really, really important. So we originally did the business strategy, how to demystifying strategic planning. And that was really, really good. Because we had a lot of people listen to that and, and come to us and then ask a bunch of questions and this the first time it's made sense to us. We've had people say, and, and then they've actually gone and started a business strategy kind of process. We had someone from Switzerland reach out to us, who was listening to our business strategy sessions, and basically said that it really made sense to them, how strategic planning worked, having listened to those episodes, and I love that kind of feedback.
Ron Tomlian:It's very gratifying to hear that. Because even though there's a lot of stuff out there at the moment, just having a conversation in a, I suppose a common sense way with some framework.
Brenton Gowland:Yeah.
Ron Tomlian:Helps people put it in context. And that's Exactly. That's what we're all about.
Brenton Gowland:And that's why I think these series are important. So then we went on to driving business development, and today.
Ron Tomlian:Networking. Networking. So we're going to go back to the beginning and start with, what is networking all about? And is there a process that people can follow not just the six tips as we started our podcasts out with, we've developed into well, how can we help people develop the process that helps them and it's worth mentioning that, that we have a suggested process that people go through. And if you like, I'll stay started the ball rolling by saying, defining your purpose for networking, having a plan for networking, actually going out there and doing, engaging with other people.
Brenton Gowland:The actual networking part.
Ron Tomlian:The actual networking part. Reviewing the networking that you're doing.
Brenton Gowland:Yeah.
Ron Tomlian:And then improving, not only the networking that you're doing, but improving your competencies in terms of networking.
Brenton Gowland:Well, that's good.
Ron Tomlian:Just as a review, purpose, plan, do, review and improve.
Brenton Gowland:Well, I was just gonna say it rolls off the tongue really well. I like the way that sounds. Purpose, plan, do, review improve.
Ron Tomlian:It's not quite the four P's of marketing but it'll do.
Brenton Gowland:No, well, that was very specific timeframe. I liked the way it's called alliteration Ron. Purpose, plan, do, review, improve. So there are going to our five episodes. Yeah.
Ron Tomlian:Yeah.
Brenton Gowland:So we're starting today with purpose. You know, the one thing I think we need to do rather than call this, no wait, this needs a proper name, like Demystifying Strategic Planning or Driving Business Development. So what should this be?
Ron Tomlian:Your putting me on the spot here?
Brenton Gowland:Absolutely!
Ron Tomlian:Not networking. No. I always remember someone telling me that the only difference between networking and not working is one letter. So the I don't think we'll use that.
Brenton Gowland:No, I don't think so. And then, because you got all these people, there's this gentleman who runs around and talks about networking in Adelaide. And he always talks about, your network is your net worth. It's actually true. He's the kind of BD guy who I think needs to improve their game because it's kind of get a sale or no relationship, and that I'm not a fan of. And I think you'll see through when you listen to what we talk about today that that's probably not the ideal approach, although I'm sure it might work for some people here and there. But I think there's some truth in that, that your network is your net worth. So what would we call this series? Building your network networth?
Ron Tomlian:By the time we actually publish this, we will have had a name for it. So let's not worry about that now.
Brenton Gowland:Okay.
Ron Tomlian:I hate word smithing when I'm doing strategic planning, and I hate word smithing at the best of times.
Brenton Gowland:I'll come up with a name throughout this episode. And we'll say what it is. But anyway, by the starting with purpose today. So the purpose, can you talk to us a little bit about the whole theory of having a purpose?
Ron Tomlian:Well, at the end of the day, if you're going to undertake any activity, it's important to understand why you're doing it in the first place. So what am I trying to achieve by undertaking this?
Brenton Gowland:So why do I want to go networking?
Ron Tomlian:Yeah, if you like, if we go hark back to our strategic planning, what am I trying to achieve? It's the bid in strategic planning that's done really badly, usually. And it's the bit in networking, that we need to ask ourselves upfront, what's the purpose of all this? And it can be for different reasons for different people. If we define if we go back to the beginning, again, we defined networking as the establishment of a relationship of mutual benefit over time with a group of people then why am I establishing that what am I doing the networking for? It can be for things like winning clients, it could be things like getting information from the marketplace.
Brenton Gowland:Yeah.
Ron Tomlian:It could be things like finding a mentor.
Brenton Gowland:Yes.
Ron Tomlian:So there's a whole bunch of reasons and they basically the why falls into, in my opinion, falls into three categories. Being able to establish what are your personal career goals? What are my personal goals? And what are the goals associated with the role I'm in at the moment?
Brenton Gowland:Yeah, great.
Ron Tomlian:So if you like there's an underlying purpose to all this. Networking is simply an activity that builds a network so that you can achieve things in various aspects of your life.
Brenton Gowland:Yeah, okay, and so the whole point with what you spoke about earlier, purpose, plan, do, review, improve. The whole point of purpose is understanding why you're going out networking, so you can then start getting into the planning and doing etc, with a viewpoint of what am I trying to achieve? Why am I doing this? And that's kind of what I'm hearing is being said right now.
Ron Tomlian:Absolutely.
Brenton Gowland:Establishing our purpose helps us to have the mindset which we talked about in episode one, which helps us have the mindset that we need to be able to network effectively and build proper relationships.
Ron Tomlian:Yeah, so many people, in my experience, go out with networking with the view of I'm going to make a sale. And we've talked about this earlier on, I'm going to make a sale.
Brenton Gowland:You mean the gentleman I was just talking about earlier.
Ron Tomlian:And if you think you're going to make a sale by having a conversation with someone for two minutes, while you're exchanging business cards in, which is the typical view of networking isn't going to happen. Because to be able to work with somebody, or help solve their problems, takes a lot more and building trust, so that you can be the solution provider for that person isn't going to happen in a transactional way. So being clear, being in the right mindset, as you say, requires you to take a long term goal approach, what am I trying to achieve here? And it, It could be for a lot of people, how am I building my career? You know, what, who are the people who are going to help me in my aspiration to be whatever. CEO, start my own business, be able to find that next job. You know, a lot of people talk to me about, is this a good job for me? And the answer is not, is this a good job? For me? I'm going to apply for it. It's what's the job that's beyond that, and the job that's beyond that, that you want to grow into?
Brenton Gowland:Yes.
Ron Tomlian:Is this going to help you develop in that way? And I'm very happy to say that a lot of young people nowadays are looking at the jobs that they're looking for, or planning to apply for, not from the perspective of what is this job going to? Is it going to be interesting? It's how it's going to help me develop into where I want to be in the long term?
Brenton Gowland:Yeah, absolutely.
Ron Tomlian:So it's certainly I think that message is starting to get out there. And the education system is helping people get to the point of establishing goals for themselves. That means understanding what success looks like for me. You know, the number of CEOs that I've talked to, who subscribe to a vision of success or a version of success, I should say, that is created by society, you know, the big house, the big car, the big factory. When they haven't really examined for themselves? What a success look like for me, and what's genuine.
Brenton Gowland:So it's really a question of what do I really want? And that brings us back to what we were talking about earlier, finding the purpose for networking, right. And so you were talking about, it's got a few different aspects to it. What are my career goals, my personal goals, my role goals, which is what I was hearing, because that framework kind of helps you establish that why Yeah.
Ron Tomlian:And you know, if you look at the work that I do with CEOs every year, we reexamine that, and not just for the next year, that's ultimately what we come to a focus for that year. But I get people to look at the next five years and the next 10 years of their life.
Brenton Gowland:Yeah.
Ron Tomlian:So it's important to establish a longer term perspective, so that you go into the networking with a mindset of curiosity.
Brenton Gowland:Yeah. And so that also speaks to the fact that, like you were saying earlier going beyond the sale, if we if we think that Well, in my personal goals, I might want to travel around the world. So I might want to establish networks with people who are going to be in different countries and you.
Ron Tomlian:Like Switzerland.
Brenton Gowland:Like Switzerland will start a podcast and you might meet some people in Switzerland, but yeah, exactly. But you can establish relationships with business people that you know, are travelling and have a strategy over time to actually then build on those relationships with people in other countries, and you;ve got places to travel to.
Ron Tomlian:And luckily for us, we live in an age where technology helps us move beyond the physical presence of networking. So you can look if I if travel is one of my goals, in my life. I can look to use technology to establish relationships with people overseas already. Yep. So things like LinkedIn, Facebook, etc.
Brenton Gowland:So if finding our purpose if part of that is establishing our why, then we use our personal goals. So it just means a bit of self reflection right before we actually get to. So there's a little bit of work involved in this. And like I told some people, if you want to establish your personal goals go sit on the beach. And to your point, I know what your process is for the 10 year plan, draw three boxes. First box is...
Ron Tomlian:Personal goals. Second box.
Brenton Gowland:Yeah.
Ron Tomlian:Leadership goals. Third box business goals.
Brenton Gowland:Yep.
Ron Tomlian:And there's a separation between them.
Brenton Gowland:Well I call the second box career goals.
Ron Tomlian:Okay. Yeah, that's fine. Most people aspire to some form of leadership in their career.
Brenton Gowland:Yeah.
Ron Tomlian:And that's it, as long as you understand that there's a separation between what we're trying to achieve as a business and what I'm trying to achieve in my career in my role as leader.
Brenton Gowland:So in each of those three boxes, you put some bullet points down for where you want to be in 10 years. That's the easy part. There shouldn't be too many dot points, might be, let's say, five in each box, maybe less. But then you come back and go, What do I have to have done within five years to get to the 10 years in each of those boxes? And then it becomes longer? And then you go, what's next?
Ron Tomlian:You pull it back to one year?
Brenton Gowland:Yeah.
Ron Tomlian:What do I have to have done by the end of this year, to be on the path to achieving what I want in five years? Yep. So it's all it's all about direction.
Brenton Gowland:So once you've got that kind of a strategy in place, you're well positioned to actually have part of your why story here for business networking, right? If you think well, networking is just going out and talking to people. No, if you want to be effective, you really need a clear purpose, the clear purpose. The point I'm trying to make here is it takes a bit of work to go, what purpose do I want to have, once you understand your 10 year plan? If that's what you're going to do, there's other ways of doing it, that then gives you a bit of a view of where do I want to be? So what do I need to achieve when I'm out networking?
Ron Tomlian:That's right. And I mean, you can save for a lot of people, networking is just talking to a lot of people. But who are the people I want to talk to?
Brenton Gowland:Correct.
Ron Tomlian:Who's going to get me to where I want?
Brenton Gowland:Absolutely.
Ron Tomlian:And we'll talk more about that when we talked about planning, but it's being being very clear about what not Machiavellian. But what are the type of people who are going to help me build a type of network that I want to be able to achieve?
Brenton Gowland:So to use that travel scenario. It's people who have connections with people in other countries.
Ron Tomlian:Or people in other countries?
Brenton Gowland:Yeah, exactly, which, you know, includes the online network is based. So to establish your why you need to establish career goals, the three boxes, right. Personal goals, and then potentially, you know, goals for your current job. So once you've understood those three things, you can define your why and go, this is why I want to be networking, this is what I want to achieve. That's fine. So what are the other things we need to do to define our purpose, Ron, so we've got establishing our why. Simon Sinek will be proud of us.
Ron Tomlian:Absolutely. And I think the other thing to be able to put some meat on the bones of what, how am I going to measure this? It's not just what do I want to achieve? But what of the things that I'm going to see as a result, or what are the things I'm going to use as milestones along the way, measures like, is it the size of the network that I'm looking for? Is it the quality of the network? And how do I define quality? Is it the type of people that I'm going to be talking to, is it and it could be in the short term, the number of leads that I get as a result of the networking?
Brenton Gowland:Well, to establish the measures, you really got to start to think about what outcomes do I want to get from networking? So once we understand why we're networking, I think to get to the measures part we need to go, what outcomes are we looking for, like you were just saying?
Ron Tomlian:And that that should be time oriented, then to my way of thinking it should be time oriented. So in the next year, or in the next two years, this is what I want to do.
Brenton Gowland:And that's good, because that puts a little bit of focus into play about getting serious, but also getting out there and doing it not just thinking about it.
Ron Tomlian:If you're thinking about the 10 year goals that we talked about before, sometimes it's difficult to see the dots leading towards that the shorter term, the focus is in terms of outcomes and measures, the more we can focus on those, we can.
Brenton Gowland:Yes.
Ron Tomlian:We can actually put numbers against things. And it will be those will change over time.
Brenton Gowland:Yes.
Ron Tomlian:So the measures associated with the next year or the next six months will not be the measures you're going to use in 10 years time.
Brenton Gowland:And to your point like That's correct. And it's important to also think about that 10 year purpose. And the reason why is this. Your outcomes might be within a year, I need to win new clients because that's the job. I've started a business, I need to establish relationships with people who can mentor me or I need to get insights into what's happening. And it might be those kinds of outcomes. But let's say it's winning new clients, if you've got that view, right, you're going to get to know people who are needing the service you provide. But if you've also got the 10 year view in the back of your mind is that maybe I want to be the CEO of a company. Maybe I want to start my own business. Maybe I might be able to, I want to be able to go to another job that I really like. You're going to not want to burn a bridge. You're going to go yes, I want to find clients. But my longer term view, is to establish a network to help me do this thing that is part of my purpose. So therefore, it affects the way you talk to people. So you're more likely not to just go, hey, I want a sale.
Ron Tomlian:Exactly. And the person that you're speaking to today, as a result of your marketing, networking activities I should say. Yes, you might be speaking to someone, you've been very purposeful about it. But you still meet someone along the way, who doesn't exactly fit the client or potential client profile that you're looking for. Does that mean I discard them? I don't talk to them. They could be the type of person who will introduce you to that client in three years time.
Brenton Gowland:Correct.
Ron Tomlian:So starting to establish an understanding or starting to establish a broader network. So that yeah, it might not help me today. But how could I help this person and this person help me along the way and my path?
Brenton Gowland:Yeah, absolutely. And then what that means is that when we start networking, and we'll get into back to what we started with purpose, plan, do review, improve. When we understand our purpose, what are your goals, what are our 10 year goals, etc. Then we know that we're going to have more than one bucket that we're going to put contacts into. So when we talk to people and back to your curiosity point, and we get to know them, we can go, that person fits the potential client category, I'll put them over here. This person fits the can help me in the future category. Whatever that purpose is that you're looking for. But you can start to build relationships and start to filter those relationships, which we'll talk about in coming weeks, based on understanding why you're out there networking in the first place. So that's why this is so important. Because understanding your purpose, sets your mindset when you go out talking to people.
Ron Tomlian:That's right. And we'll talk about this whole idea of mapping because most people, when they think about networking, they think very transactionally. But the truth of the matter is whether we like it or not, we all have a network. It's how we utilise that network, how we strengthen those relationships. And whether we become important in other people's networks, or whether all we're looking for is feed me, feed me. And when that happens, I think you lose the idea of network. But when you can become important to other people, that's when that you're you become a hub in other people's networks.
Brenton Gowland:Yeah, and networking is again, it really is there's more books on networking than just about anything else. And I think because people always look for that secret sauce. And I think one of the big turning point books was how to win, how is it called How to Win Friends and Influence People.
Ron Tomlian:Yeah absolutely. It was Dale Carnegie years and years ago. And he basically came down to the idea that you have to be useful to other people. And you have to come from a mindset of how you can be useful to them, as well as them being useful.
Brenton Gowland:Correct. Because when I remember when I read that book, that what really struck me was him really encouraging people to be genuine. To you said there was some line in there where he talked about, you can read this book and look for ways to sell to people. But that's not the essence of it, the essence of it is to come from the inside out and actually be genuine with people. And then I remember the last couple of chapters, which were really interesting for a book written, I think, in the 60s. Oh well before that. Oh was it?
Ron Tomlian:Back in the 30s, I think.
Brenton Gowland:Because he talked about not neglecting the most important relationships in your life. And he was talking about your spouse, or your partner and your kids and all that. If you spend all your time just doing business things, then you're you're really not building the best relationships, because I don't want to say that networking is included with your family and so forth. But in a sense, it really is. It's a similar kind of mindset. So this is a mindset for business relationships, and then you've got personal relationships, family relationships. So those kind of three categories. Obviously, what we're talking about is business relationships at the moment. But your approach to that and your thinking is so important for what your life is going to look like in the personal sense, what your business life is going to look like in the networking sense, because it really is like, your next job comes out of your network. And we've seen that with SA Business Builders, there's one of the people who's helping us run it now progressed from where she was to another job by seeking mentoring in the group and talking to other CEOs that she'd never had access to before. And now I know she's just this person whos just won another really good job and stepped up her career because of being able to be exposed to different thinking in a larger group of people. So I know her purpose for networking is literally personal development.
Ron Tomlian:And again, being very clear about that. And understanding it will change over time.
Brenton Gowland:Yeah, purpose, plan, do, review, improve So it's a cycle, right? So your goals for this year might not be the same goals for next year, your purpose may even evolve, and it will evolve.
Ron Tomlian:I suspect for everyone, that purpose will evolve.
Brenton Gowland:So with your TEC members, you do it once a year?
Ron Tomlian:Absolutely.
Brenton Gowland:So you reckon you review your purpose for networking once a year?
Ron Tomlian:I would say that, at the very least, you'd want to be doing that on an every couple of year basis. Because reviewing your activity, and what you're doing in that activity, maybe doesn't need to be done as often. But certainly, you need to be thinking about it.
Brenton Gowland:Okay, so just in wrapping up today, what we're really looking at over the next five or six episodes is going to be really building our networking game. And we'll come up with a good name for this before because the way Ron and I work is we sit down and we plan what are we going to do next, over a coffee at rather lovely place around here. And we just we really felt that networking was where we needed to be next, particularly because we've come out of COVID, and everyone needs to start stretching their networking muscles, again, everyone needs to think about it. And the point that we really kind of want to push is that networking is not just about going out and getting a sale. Networking is a really structured planned activity. And there's a lot of fear when you mention the word networking with certain people, because they think, oh, networking equals networking event.
Ron Tomlian:Oh, and yeah, and I think, I think there's also a lot of contempt for networking, because it's seen as the realm of the business development person, the salesperson. The truth of the matter is, every person who has a job is actively involved in networking, whether they know it or not, it's whether it's focused on achieving the things they want. And to be able to do that, you need to be able to say what those things are in the first place. So the foundation of all this is having a clear understanding of why you're doing it
Brenton Gowland:100%. So that's this episode, to really be able to effectively network, and maybe that's our title there, effective networking Ron. See, we just found it through our conversation.
Ron Tomlian:Yeah very good.
Brenton Gowland:Is really starting by understanding your purpose. And what we talked about today is understanding why you're networking, what the outcomes are, that you're looking for, so that you can create measures to go, are we actually effectively doing this. And the words we want you to remember and the episodes that are coming up is to really be effective at networking, you need to really understand your purpose. And those five things are purpose, plan, do, review improve. So you need to understand your purpose that will enable you to plan, then you got to go out and do it. Always once you've done something, you go and review it. And then you ask how can we improve? And we'll talk about that and the cycle and how to put that into play over the coming episodes. Any closing thoughts, Ron?
Ron Tomlian:Yeah, I think I'm looking forward to exploring more on the next stage, which is planning, I'm a great fan of planning. And I think people don't do enough in this area. They want to get up there and do it. Once they've established their purpose. It's important to think about what is my network at the moment and how do I enhance that? So planning comes into that, how do I be more effective in what I do? And thinking about it beforehand becomes, you know, who do I want to speak to? Where do they hang out? What sort of events and what sort of activities do I need to undertake. All that's involved in the planning stage. You'll hear more about that next time.
Brenton Gowland:Fantastic. So until next time, it's goodbye from me
Ron Tomlian:And goodbye from me.
Brenton Gowland:Ciao.