Business Builders Podcast

How to find and keep a mentor

April 10, 2021 Brenton Gowland & Ron Tomlian Season 1 Episode 4
Business Builders Podcast
How to find and keep a mentor
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

In today's episode our hosts Brenton Gowland and Ron Tomlian continue their discussion about  the importance of mentors, and focus on how to go about finding a mentor.

Some of the topics covered include: 

  • What is the difference between a mentor, a coach and a consultant?
  • The importance of knowing why you want a mentor
  • Understanding what mentors look to get out of a relationship with a mentee
  • The value that young business professionals provide to their mentors
  • Looking to find mentors through people you respect and trust
  • How to find a mentor when you have little or no network to help you
  • Focusing on having multiple mentors rather than just one
  • How to keep a mentor

The Business Builders Podcast is brought to you by SA Business Builders and Nucleus – Creative Agency.

Nucleus – Creative Agency
Specialising in growing business through brand, digital, video, web, print, campaigns and marketing.

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Brenton Gowland:

Today on the Business Builders podcast, we're talking about part two of our topic on the importance of mentoring, which is, how do I go about finding a mentor? Ron, my co host talks about his latest artwork purchase from Aboriginal artist, Tony Wilson, and I talked about the fact you have to be careful what you suggest people do, because they might just do it. Well, welcome to the Business Builders Podcast. I am Brenton Gowland.

Ron Tomlian:

And I'm Ron Tomlian.

Brenton Gowland:

And it's great to have you here. So, Ron, today we're discussing how to find a mentor. And of course, you're my mentor. So it's going to be or at least one of them. And I've known you for boy, what have I known you for 15 years now.

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah.

Brenton Gowland:

Cool, and how did?

Ron Tomlian:

It's hard to believe it

Brenton Gowland:

It is hard to believe. And you know how, I still remember how I met you, originally, I was working at another agency, and we were doing this particular job and you came in, and I think our creative director was away, and suggested that we should approach this job in one way and give them just one concept. And our process at that point, was to give multiple concepts to a client before we actually, you know, so that we can cover off all the bases, and you were like, no one and I remember everyone in the business behind the scenes were very dubious about whether we should do this your way or not. And we did it your way. And we won the client, and then worked for them for the next, I think seven years or something. And I remember that impressed me so much. And then I started seeing you and AmCham events and whatnot. And at some point I went, I really want to start to understand and know what this guy knows. And I started to make an effort to get to know you. And then over time we ended up in where I said basically I want your input into our business, etc. Is that how you come across people generally like is it people have known you from the past? Etc, etc?

Ron Tomlian:

I think it comes from a range of different inputs.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah.

Ron Tomlian:

People can come to you and wanting a formal relationship. People can come to you, as a mentor, wanting just a discussion. Yeah. And just to get to know you. And and I think everything in between those two extremes is valid in terms of the ways that you can you can obtain a mentor and develop a mentoring relationship with someone.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah.

Ron Tomlian:

And that's what I'd like to talk about today.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah, great. Well, we'll get into that in just a sec. But before we do, what's been going on in, in the world of Ron Tomlian, for the last week or so?

Ron Tomlian:

For the last week, or? Well, there was Easter, of course. But interestingly, I recently, my wife and I recently purchased our first piece, and in fact, two pieces at the same time of indigenous art.

Brenton Gowland:

That's Interesting.

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah, I and I absolutely love these pieces, by a local artist called Tony Wilson, which is kind of interesting, because one of my best friends his named Tony Wilson.

Brenton Gowland:

Yes.

Ron Tomlian:

Not the same guy. But I love the authenticity of his approach, and yet it appeals to a broader artistic base. So I'm a great fan.

Brenton Gowland:

So what kind of art is it? Is it actual painting? Or is it interpretive? Or is it what we would consider traditional indigenous art, like dot paintings and so forth.

Ron Tomlian:

That's what I really like. It's, it's a combination. It's, there's a dot element to it. And I'm not by any way an aficionado in this area. But there's a dot element to it. But the end, its interpretive, but it, it uses a much more structured appearance, which is in line with, I suppose traditional Western art. Yeah. So I think he's done a magnificent job of really capturing the spirit of indigenous painting and being true to that, and yet appealing to a more traditional Western base.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah, that's really interesting, because we've been doing a lot of acknowledgement of country and Welcome to Country videos for different businesses with the Kaurna people. And we work with a gentleman named Jack Buckskin, who I think we should get on the show at some point, because it's really interesting how, you know, COVID and the way the world is working now is, is really enabled stories to be told in a deeper way. And one thing that's come out of one of the videos we did actually for SA Health, is we used a local artist, I can't remember his last name, but his first name is Shane. I'll look it up. And I'll make sure we talk about him next time but we use this art in the video where jack puts his hand on a tree and, and artwork emanates from his hand, but the colours are pink, and purple. And we had a bunch of people asking us, you know, why is it pink and purple? Why aren't you using like red ochre and so forth? And the fact is that because Shane is a Kuarna person. And he's using those colours now because they're available to him because he'll go to Bunnings and buy a spray paint. If he's doing wall art. He uses Photoshop and whatever. So that's part of like the Kuarna canon. So it's a living artwork, and it's living and progressing. And people sometimes don't think about that. So when you're talking about there's a Western influence and so forth, that's Kuarna Art is it, is?

Ron Tomlian:

I'm not sure whether Tony is

Brenton Gowland:

You're not sure what people group he's from Yeah, that's interesting, isn't it? But what interests me is that the artwork is alive and living and growing. And I think we'll see some really interesting things develop over the next few years in terms of Aboriginal art, Art from our first people,

Ron Tomlian:

Some something to look forward to, I think.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah, I agree. And now, just before we get into our topic, I think it's, we need to talk about our sponsors, but we've been neglecting one of our sponsors. And we're sponsored by two groups. One of them is SA Business Builders. And that is a network of business professionals that meet together about once a month, and we've got about 12 hosts, some of those hosts you'll be hearing from on the podcast very soon. But we get together and we really focus on focus on helping people build really solid relationships, because we have a belief that it's the relationships we build with other business people that will help the economy move forward.

Ron Tomlian:

Oh, well, I couldn't agree more. And what I like about the SA Business Builders is it's not about handing out cards. It's about understanding and developing meaningful relationships with people. It's what we talked about at length first podcast is the real essence of networking, is how can I help you? How can you help me and it's not going to happen in one quick meeting where I hand over some details about who I am. And what I do.

Brenton Gowland:

Now, if we've talked about this in one of our other podcasts, it's about building career long relationships that are agnostic to where you work. And you know, when you one of the things we do at SA Business Builders is we we suggest that people shouldn't come and sell they should come and get to know people because the work will come if it's meant to come. And we get a really great response from people around that, because they love that just the freedom to actually get to know other people without that pressure of oh boy, they're going to try and sell me something. So I guess the point we're getting at is they are one of our sponsors, you will be hearing from some of our 12 hosts on this. And there's all the 12 hosts have a series of different professional skills, what are they? So their Defence, Psychology, PR, Digital Transformation, Business Coaching. What else is there in the mix. Resilience training.

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah I was just going to say.

Brenton Gowland:

Psychology.

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah we said psychology.

Brenton Gowland:

Oh, yeah, I like doubling up, you know, reinforces a point, right?

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah. Fleet Management.

Brenton Gowland:

Oh, that's correct. Fleet Management.

Ron Tomlian:

A range of businesses just like the range of businesses that exists in South Australia. It's a nice little metaphor for the business community here in South Australia.

Brenton Gowland:

not be from South Australia. But if you're coming to visit, we're happy to host you just contact us reach out to Ron and myself. And we'll have a chat with you and get you an invite to the next event. So that's one of our sponsors. The other one is, of course, my business Nucleus. And we talk a lot about the fact that, you know, good stories are what people connect with. And Nucleus is a company that specialise in helping businesses tell their stories in a way that helps them connect with their audience that can help them grow their businesses, and achieve their goals. And the way they do that are the way we do that, because it's, it's my business. So I got to take ownership for this is, we do this through the delivery of strategic communication services that allow us to co create brands with you, buil websites, videos, marketing campaigns, design and prin projects, and so forth in orde to help you tell your story. S we'd like to invite you pleas visit our sponsors. SA Busines Builders, you can just contac Ron or myself via LinkedIn, bu Nucleus just visi www.nucleus.com.au

Ron Tomlian:

And it just occurred to me we should talk about the importance of storytelling in terms of business relationships, because quite frankly, it is the basis of all communication.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah it really is

Ron Tomlian:

All effective communication anyway.

Brenton Gowland:

So personal brand, and business.

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah, business brand. And what I mean, branding comes down to good storytelling.

Brenton Gowland:

Yep. And as you know, we're going to start getting into the branding topics and so forth a little bit later. But again, our topic for today.

Ron Tomlian:

How to Choose a mentor.

Brenton Gowland:

Yep. So do you want to start us off? You've got some Oh, actually, before we get into it, how about we just Talk about the difference because this has come up a little bit. What's the difference between a coach and a mentor?

Ron Tomlian:

What's the difference between a coach, a mentor and a consultant?

Brenton Gowland:

Oh, good point. Okay.

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah. So you can look up definitions, I think.

Brenton Gowland:

There's a lot on the internet.

Ron Tomlian:

Oh, absolutely. And there's, there's some very good definitions that people can use. But to me, it comes down to a mentor is a person, that you have a longer term relationship with, who looks at a multiple, multiple different aspects of your life or your career, a coach tends to be more short term for specific purposes, you know, whether it's business coaching, or in the new life coaching concept, or coaching for sporting prowess, coaching for specific skills. And it is usually coaching is a more transactional type relationship.

Brenton Gowland:

So you pay someone for a specific,

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah,

Brenton Gowland:

Help a specific area?

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah. It's not always the case. And you know, for instance, in work I do with the TEC groups that I run, the chair of those groups me, tends to fulfil the role of culture, in some cases, mentor and others. So it, it's not easily defined as coach or mentor. So you have that flexibility in that particular case.

Brenton Gowland:

There is a bit of crossover though yeah?

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I think the third one is the consultant. A consultant is brought in for a specific issue. And almost invariably, that's a paid relationship.

Brenton Gowland:

Yep.

Ron Tomlian:

And they have specific and specific expertise, usually quite short term, and much more associated with an issue, then skills or knowledge development.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah, sure. And I see a little bit differently, too, I think a mentor is more actually a business friendship, where the friendship is such that it is, in particular, one person is a sounding board. And we'll talk about this in a minute that both parties get something out of it, where a coach is a hire, and not necessarily a friendship with someone who you've got driving you to do something. Now, a mentor may, in some instances, coach you. But I really believe like, because the way I've developed my relationships with different people who've been mentors, is there's been a real desire for each party to help each other. So the mentor to help the mentee, and the mentee to, you know, provide something to the mentor. So I think there's a real big difference is a business friendship versus a transaction in my mind.

Ron Tomlian:

Absolutely. And and I think the other thing too, in in coaching relationships, oftentimes, the experience of the coach is not necessarily what people are looking for. It's their capacity to develop skills and abilities. Whereas in mentoring, really what you're looking for, from your mentor is their life experience as a basis for them giving you some perspective.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah. Okay. That's excellent. So give us your ah, I believe you've come with three tips about how to find a mentor, you like the number three don't you?

Ron Tomlian:

I do indeed, yeah, it's easy to remember for me. So number one, know why you want a mentor. I found that so often, people want a mentor because other people say it's a good idea. And that's it. And I think that's fallacious, I think you you really need to understand from your own perspective, what are you trying to get out of this business friendship, as you so rightly put it? Do you have clear objectives? Is it about your career? Is it about a specific job? Is it about life in general, and you're looking for some guidance? That will help you having clear expectations of what you want to get out of this relationship will help you to choose the person and help you to to choose the approach that you take with that person. So be very clear. I'm a great fan of writing things down. If you're going to get a mentor, why do I want a mentor, write it, write down your ideas, reflect on your ideas, and be very, as a result of that reflection, be very specific about the things that you want to get out of it. Because at the end of the day, when you're talking to potential mentors, you'll get a feeling for whether they can help you with what you're trying to achieve.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah. 100% and I totally agree with that, because I know that from my own experience when I've been looking for a mentor, particularly in the early stages when I started you know, understanding that in, in my role at Nucleus that I had to start selling. And that's something that I hadn't really considered before. Because, you know, I thought I'd be doing the work. But you have to win the work as well to be able to be able to do the work, I needed someone to help me actually learn how to sell. So I remember I approached someone that I'd known for a long time, like I'd known you. And I saw this person, you know, they had some really incredible skills in helping businesses turn around and getting them, you know, their sales up. So I asked that person to coach me for a year was coaching, but it was still a mentor kind of relationship, and teach me how to actually learn how to be a business development person. And that was a very specific thing I needed to learn. And then you know, yourself, it was more about what how do we, you know, develop processes, and actually learn about governance, with business and so forth. So I totally agree with that. It's actually understanding what you want to achieve, and then helps you work out who you need to talk to.

Ron Tomlian:

So it really does help establish what role they'll play in your development, because really, mentoring is all about your development.

Brenton Gowland:

Yes.

Ron Tomlian:

But that leads me very nicely perfect segue into the second point, which is to understand what the person who you're selecting as a mentor will get out of that relationship.

Brenton Gowland:

Interesting, tell me more.

Ron Tomlian:

Okay, because, you know, I'm a great fan of understanding that we all look for what's in it for me. Yeah. And people are motivated by what they will get out of the activities, they engage in.

Brenton Gowland:

Yep.

Ron Tomlian:

So what is their perspective on why they are even potentially doing this. And that's why having conversations beforehand, as you say, business friendship is important in understanding that the way the person sees whether they will be involved in your development. And I think so often, especially young people underestimate the value that they can provide, in that sort of sort of relationship.

Brenton Gowland:

You don't know, what you know, to, you know, right!

Ron Tomlian:

Absolutely. So think about what you can offer to other people who you potentially would approach as a mentor, what's their, what perspective do you have on things, you know, and quite frankly, young people have a perspective that older people are looking for, you know, just enthusiasm. I know, I love hanging around with people a lot younger than me, because they've got the enthusiasm I used to have. Yeah, it's been knocked out of mind, my head over the years,

Brenton Gowland:

Has it really?

Ron Tomlian:

You know, sometimes it's just about connection.

Brenton Gowland:

Yes.

Ron Tomlian:

Having someone else that that has been flattered them by saying, I would like to work with you, on my development. Sometimes it's about skills and knowledge that you have, that the other person doesn't have, whether it be in a completely different field, you know, you might be in marketing, they might be in general business management, or specific skills associated with technology, or specific skills associated with whatever you happen to be able to do. Yeah. And and I said, I, like I said at the beginning, never underestimate the fact that you have oftentimes more enthusiasm than the person you are approaching. So under those circumstances, use that to your advantage.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah. And don't underestimate also the fact that if someone's seeing you progress, they're getting something out of it, because often, I think the mentor, particularly if they're mentoring someone for the first or second or third or early on in their, you know, mentoring career, they actually build up their leadership skills and build up their ability to be able to lead and inspire people and help people change and so forth.

Ron Tomlian:

Communicate, influence and inspire.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah, absolutely. The mentor themselves actually get, I know that I've been involved with a few people being lucky enough to be involved with some younger people. I had a guy. We were at a venue in the city a little while ago, and this gentleman was there with some people that we work with. And he was going for a job. And he was like, you know, this is what I'm trying to do. How should I approach the interview? It was just a general conversation over a beer actually. And I said, look, I made some suggestions. And I gave him a book to read, which was, The Seven Habits of Highly Successful People, and said, you really need to start understanding your worth and where you're going and what you're doing and blah, blah. And I bumped into him in the supermarket the other day, I couldn't remember who he was. But he went up to me and he said, Do you remember me? And I'm like, sure. And he said, You told me to read this book we met, you know, at this particular venue. We talked about this job interview I was doing, I went and read the book, and it changed my thinking on this. And I want you to know, I've just got a job doing X Y Z, and it was because of that conversation. And I remember going, Wow, be careful what you say. Yeah, but no, it really it made me think, oh gee, the contribution I made even just flippantly one night to this young guy listening to him speak, actually made a difference and it does something for you.

Ron Tomlian:

It may be short term but certainly a mentoring relationship and I would I would disagree with you. Don't be careful about what you say. I think the opportunities to, as you quite rightly pointed out, inspire people.

Brenton Gowland:

Yes.

Ron Tomlian:

To do things that they wouldn't do by themselves.

Brenton Gowland:

Yes.

Ron Tomlian:

I think that's part of the a big part of leadership. It's certainly a mentoring relationship.

Brenton Gowland:

So what I'm saying is, I'm speaking directly to mentees, people looking for a mentor right now, is don't underestimate the value that you have to provide to a mentor. And sometimes it's not tangible. But we'll talk about that when I get to my tips.

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah. And I think the other side of the coin, if you like, the, what do I have to put in is what do they have to put in to be able to mentor you, obviously, there's time and effort. And so when you establish that relationship it's about understanding that there needs to be flexibility.

Brenton Gowland:

Sure.

Ron Tomlian:

So again, coming back to understand their perspective is about listening to what they have to say. Right at the very beginning, trying and establish some history, some profile to that person, so that you can see whether that is what you want. Because you now have, don't forget, you now have knowing already what you want in a mentor, because you've established why you want one.

Brenton Gowland:

Yep cool.

Ron Tomlian:

The third point.

Brenton Gowland:

Yep.

Ron Tomlian:

Look to people you respect and trust.

Brenton Gowland:

100%.

Ron Tomlian:

Do you admire this person? Why do you admire this person? Would you trust this person? At the end of the day? A mentoring relationship is about providing you with ideas and guidance and feedback. So is this person honest and candid in what they're saying? Are they just blowing smoke up your skirt as the saying goes? Will they be vulnerable with you? And be willing to share their mistakes? As well as their triumph?

Brenton Gowland:

Yes.

Ron Tomlian:

Are you confident in their judgement? And are they the type of people whose judgement you would trust?

Brenton Gowland:

Yes.

Ron Tomlian:

They're going to give you advice. That's part of the relationship? Yes. Is that the type of person you want to listen to? And in terms of the guidance they provide you, what's their success profile? Like? Have they been if you're looking for specific skills? Do they have those skills? If you're looking for their perspective, what's their expertise? And what's the experience that they've had? In order to give you that perspective?

Brenton Gowland:

Well, I could not agree with you more on those points. Because like I was saying to you, I knew you for probably 15 years before I started approaching you saying, I need some help in this area.

Ron Tomlian:

I've been avoiding you for a long time.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah I know. And that kind of guy. But in all seriousness, like it was that first experience when I saw you in that agency, and I saw you giving a counter opinion to what everyone else thought, and then that actually working. And I was like, wow, and then observing you over many years at different bits and pieces. And I thought, this is a guy I need to speak to. And it was the same with the person who taught me business development. I'd known her for quite a long time. And I saw her turn a whole company around in the way they did things. And I remember, the story was there that this particular company employed her to, you know, get sales up and so forth, and do more marketing. And she said, Do you want me to get sales up? Or do you want me to increase profit? And they said, well, of course, increased profit. And she said, right, let's, let's get a purchase order, run it through the company and see what comes back. And at that process took two years, but they they ironed out all the wrinkles. And I think they increased their profit by more than 30% just by getting their processes right. And then, of course, the sales grew. And I watched her professionalism there. And I thought, wow, this is someone I want to listen to. So every single person and even when I, you know, started my business, the people who we were watching were CEOs of other companies that I've been working with that I saw them have successful companies, and I wanted their input because I could see what they were doing. But the question is, when you don't know those kind of people, how do you find them Ron?

Ron Tomlian:

Well, that's, I think, the basis of what you're going to talk about so....

Brenton Gowland:

Oh yes it is. haha. We segue into my tips. So my first tip is like, I get a lot of younger people coming up to me, because of you know, we work in advertising and marketing, when they find that out, they come and talk to you or, you know, if they're really young in business and they want to know, how do they progress, and I take my hat off to them for asking me the question. And I often say to them, and I have this belief that if you're just starting out and you're in your young 20s, or whatever, you should find someone This is just an opinion. But you should find someone 6 to 10 years older than you, who is where you want to be and start surrounding yourself with those type of people and start to learn from them. Because that way your next step is and when you're just starting out, you want to be able to next step. And as you start next stepping and get to know more people in your network opens up and then you can go, well, where do I want to be in the future? And then you can start thinking about bigger steps than that. But I think those first early steps where's the person who's doing what I want to be doing next? And how do I actually, you know, learn from them. And it might not be necessarily a mentor relationship, but it's just hanging out with and listening to the way they speak and in the circles, but how do you do that, if you don't know anybody? Well, I would suggest that if you are just starting out, get involved with industry associations, because that's where you're going to find people. So if it's in marketing, get involved with the AMI, the Australian Marketing Institute, go to the events, hang out with marketing managers, listen to what they say, build relationships with people, ask them questions about what they're doing. They'll get a kick out of it, because everyone likes talking about what they're doing. And then over time, you might, you know, ask them out for a coffee and ask them for advice and, and that kind of thing. And that really helps. You could go to BusinessSA and meet people, their BusinessSA are always helping people set up mentoring relationships. So there are also organisations that match people with mentors and so forth. But I honestly think find an association, find a group volunteer somewhere, get to be involved with people who are doing things like this SA Business Builders, for example, we're looking for, you know, a couple of younger people who are starting out in their careers to get involved in, you know, helping us so that they can then you know, through that network, meet CEOs meet other people. And because we're all working together, when you actually, this is an interesting point, when you get involved as a younger person, and you volunteer your time, with, you know, an organisation say it's the Fringe or say it's a, you know, Food Bank, or some worthy charity, through those organisations, you will start to meet people. So I'm going to pull that tip back, you know, how do you find a mentor, when you don't have a network? You get involved in associations, you volunteer, and you get to know people and build relationships.

Ron Tomlian:

And I'm very much aligned with that. I would say, when you go out there and do under to, you know, put yourself out there and undertake these sorts of activities, very much along the lines of what we talked about in mentoring and networking, is use the power of questioning. Now, we're, if we were to talk about mentoring, a lot of that talks about using questions instead of statements.

Brenton Gowland:

We're talking about the mentee here right?

Ron Tomlian:

Yes, when you're looking for a mentor, use the power of asking questions, you'll get a sense of that person. And if you're asking the right set of questions, instead of impressing them with the little experience that you've had, you'll impress them with the insights that you can have through the questions you ask.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah, 100% because learning isn't about telling people what you do learning is about asking them what they do, and then aligning it with yourself. Now my second tip is, have multiple mentors. So and then is have people that you can speak to who can give you advice who or have business friendships with you might have a different skill set. You know, in a lot of cases, you know, we've talked about there might be an age gap, in a lot of cases, there might not be an age gap. It might be an aligned person in a in a different industry or something. I know that I have a friend in Melbourne who does business development, and we we had this conversation earlier in the year going, we want to mentor each other, I want to and that is simply as having a one hour phone conversation once a month going, Hey, what are you doing? Hey, what are you doing? How are you approaching this? What are you doing here? And we're just bantering about how we're doing our jobs. And every now and again, something will come out and go, Oh, gee, I really liked that I'm taking that. And that that's a mentoring relationship, but it's a mutually beneficial business friendship.

Ron Tomlian:

So you know, I've got to say that is the basis for those groups that I run Yeah, is that people often refer to me as the mentor. No, when join one of these groups. It's about having 12 to 16 mentors sitting around you, who can provide different experiences, and perspectives.

Brenton Gowland:

That's also the basis of SA Business Builders, we got 12 hosts who basically mentor each other. It's very, very good. Now, another interesting thing, right? When you're looking for a mentor, and this is not a tip, this is just an aside, you don't need to go to someone to say, will you be my mentor? That's, that's a really odd kind of statement to make. I would suggest that, you know, the mentor is a title, right. It's a title of someone who can guide you, and give you a sounding board on certain topics and so forth, I would suggest that you just say, I want to have a coffee and talk about X. Can you help me in this particular area here? Would it be okay to meet? And, you know, just talk about that? And they'll say yes or no, or whatever it is, you might put a case that you know, and the way you actually approach them might make them go? Yeah, I'd be really keen to actually speak into that because a lot of these people, when you ask someone, you know, for their time on a certain subject if you approach it in the right way. It's actually a bit of a it's an honouring thing. You were talking about what's in it for them. It's like all they recognise that I've got a skill in this area, then yes, I can give them some of my time. But this leads into my next tip, which is how do you keep a mentor, which is the question, and I want to suggest that it's how you report back to them. So let's say you've had that coffee with X person. And I told you about that young man who met me in the supermarket and said, you said this, and that equaled that. That's a kind of a reporting back that it's very spontaneous. We didn't have a mentoring relationship, but we, you know, allowed him to bounce off of me on that particular night. And I gave him some advice. And he took it. And he told me, he took it. And you know what, in my mind, I went, I should really actually catch up with this guy and have a proper conversation because I thought, well, what I've said has actually made a difference. So to my point, if you have someone who's a professional, who gives up their time to speak to you, and they give you some advice, when you go away, you should come back to them and report and say, hey, I listened to your advice. Here's what I did. And here's the result. Thank you so much. This has really helped me. Do you mind if we get together again and have a coffee? I can tell you right now, I reckon if it was me, and a lot of people I know, they'd go, wow, this person is actually listening. They're not just dropping what I say on the ground, and it's actually making a difference. I'm willing to invest a little bit more.

Ron Tomlian:

It doesn't mean that you have to do chapter and verse exactly what they've suggested. But at least you've reflected.

Brenton Gowland:

Yep.

Ron Tomlian:

You've thought about it. And you've done something as a result of that discussion.

Brenton Gowland:

Correct. So yeah, what if you, tell me this Ron. What if you don't agree with what they say? This particular person, you know, they're the right person to talk to about different things. And you've chosen different route, but they're influenced it, how would you report back on that?

Ron Tomlian:

Well just what you said, I think you've got to be open and honest. And say, I have thought about what you said, it's not the right time for me. It's not actually the right course of action for me, whatever. But it did make me think and as a result, this is what I'm planning to do. And I'm not looking for feedback. I'm just letting you know, because it was worthwhile. And I'd like to have more of these discussions.

Brenton Gowland:

So here's an interesting story. A friend of mine, his name's Mike Scott, you might know him from Nona Digital, there you go, I've just giving him a plug. But um, he told me the story about he wanted this particular guy to mentor him. And he was in the gentleman. I can't remember his name. But he was very well known and very influential. I think this was back in South Africa. And he asked the guy to spend some time with him. And the gentleman said, Yes. And he met with him. And I think in the first meeting, he said something like, you know, such and such suggested that I meet with you and have a conversation. I don't really know if I have got time for this, but talk. haha. And Mike was like, oh, what do I do? So they had a conversation, and the person really liked it. And then they met again, and met again, and met again, and met again, and met again. And this person really influenced how their business went. And but he had a conversation with him down the track. And he said, the mentor to Mike said, you know what, I was waiting for you to stuff up. I was waiting for you to not respond to what we've talked about. Not do what you said you were going to do. And as soon as you did that, I was going to drop you like a hot potato. And he said, The reason I got really interested is because I've seen your business grow. But you actually did the things we talked about. And that's what mattered to me. And the fact that I could have something to do with that. I thought that was interesting.

Ron Tomlian:

I think it's the I suppose the ultimate flattery is to have people listen to what you have to say and act as a result of that. Not always exactly what you've said, but as a result, thought about it and done something because of that conversation you've had. Yep.

Brenton Gowland:

It's, it's pretty nice to have that on your personal resume. You know, and as a life achievement. Yes,

Ron Tomlian:

I've helped people make a difference.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah, that's great.

Ron Tomlian:

And everyone wants that, I think.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah. 100%. And, you know, I want to be able to be able to speak to people who can make a difference. So being able to then, you know, it goes back to that here's a mutually beneficial relationship. So a mentor and a mentee, you know, in essence to what we were talking about in the beginning is a lot closer than a business coach, and you know, the person they're coaching because it's, it's actually a business friendship, isn't it? That's right. So I recon that about it. So is there anything else you have to add before we close up today? Because we've gotten a little bit over time, but I think this again, is a very important topic.

Ron Tomlian:

Yeah, I think we've we've strayed from the How to choose to how to keep but obviously, we're intimately related.

Brenton Gowland:

But I think understanding how to keep actually helps you with how to choose.

Ron Tomlian:

Because you don't have tochoose that often.

Brenton Gowland:

That's true. So look, again, we'd like to thank our sponsors. They are SA Business Builders. If you want to come along to one of our events, and you're in South Australia, then make sure that you hit up Ron and myself. If you're listening internationally, we hope the borders will open up at some point when you come to our lovely state, we will definitely host you. And we'd also like to make a shout out to nucleus who are experts in helping you tell your story. So visit www.nucleus.com.au to see how they can help you. So any final words Ron, before we...

Ron Tomlian:

I'm looking forward to our next podcast.

Brenton Gowland:

Oh, yes, we are. We're starting to get people make a lot of suggestions. And we're going to start featuring some of our hosts. So I think that'll be fun. So please stay tuned. And as always, if you have any feedback for us, please leave the feedback. We'd love your reviews on Apple Podcasts or wherever you want to do it. But we'd also love your suggestions in what do you want to hear about? So we know that mentoring was asked for by Kevin DeCean. And we've got a few other topics that are coming up shortly that have been asked for other, asked for by other people.

Ron Tomlian:

And we'd love to hear your views. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's no point in doing this and spending the time unless it's useful to people.

Brenton Gowland:

Well you know, I just enjoy talking to you Ron, so we can just do this of our own volition.

Ron Tomlian:

All right. Well, on that note, thanks very much Brenton.

Brenton Gowland:

See you next time.

Introduction
About today's topic
What's the difference between a mentor, coach and consultant
Tip#1 - Know why you want a mentor
Tip#2 - Understand what your mentor will get out of the relationship
Tip#3 - Look to people you respect and trust
Tip#4 - How to you find mentors when you don't have a network
Tip#5 - Look for multiple mentors
Tip#6 - How to keep a mentor
Final thoughts
Sponsor messages
Wrap up