Business Builders Podcast

Targeted Networking with Michael Phillips

February 18, 2023 Brenton Gowland & Ron Tomlian Season 3 Episode 37
Business Builders Podcast
Targeted Networking with Michael Phillips
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Brokering million-dollar deals requires developing a high level of trust with your prospects. Today one of our hosts, Brenton Gowland, is talking with guest Michael Phillips about his targeted approach to networking and building trust.

Michael is an entrepreneur and enterprise technology salesperson. At the age of 22, Michael developed a startup technology app that he successfully sold to a company in San Francisco.  The experience he gained led him to develop a passion for technology sales.
 
Michael shares insights he gained from his startup experience and the networking methodology he developed as a result that he puts into practice working on million-dollar technology sales today.

The topics we cover in this episode are: 

  • Learning the value of networking
  • Michael's purpose for networking
  • Networking Synergy - Michael's Networking Methodology
  • How do we bring authenticity into networking?
  • When you're being paid to network, how do you stay authentic?
  • How Michael plans his networking
  • Michael's strategies for doing networking
  • Michael's approach to following up
  • How Michael maintains his network
  • How Michael improves his Networking skills
  • Michael's three tips to improve our Networking

 

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Brenton Gowland:

Today on The Business Builders podcast, we're talking with entrepreneur and sales professional Michael Phillips in the second interview of our effective networking series, and our focus is the benefits of being targeted with your networking. Well, welcome to the Business Builders podcast. I am your only host today. My name is Brenton Gowland and Ron, our other co host is off holidaying in Kangaroo Island. So we hope Ron has a great time while he's away. But today, we're going to continue on with our effective networking series. Last year, the last five or so episodes, we did a series on effective networking, and how to go about improving how you network. And then we interviewed a gentleman by the name of Paul Kitching. And His purpose for networking was to build relationships at volume. Now what we want to do is we want to interview a couple of other people at the start of this year to give some perspective on different methods of networking so that you can see how different purposes for networking equal different approaches. So when you go through the effective networking series in our past episodes from last year, I think the last six it was you'll see that different purposes, end up with different approaches. So anyway, on that I'm really excited because today, we've got a young entrepreneur with us. His name is Michael Phillips, I've known Michael for probably about six, five-six years, I think now. So I'll give you a bit of a background on Michael, as I said, he's an entrepreneur, and an enterprise technology salesperson. And he founded at a young age about the age of 22, a sales enablement startup, which had users at Google, Square, Microsoft, Morgan Stanley, and was ultimately acquired by an organisation called The Sales Developers in San Francisco. Michael then led the sales strategy and execution for an Australian software development company, and currently manages the South Australian enterprise customers for a global cyber security company. Michael is passionate about technology, and how it can help executives and businesses achieve their goals. And the reason I wanted to get Michael on the show is because I've watched how Mike was approached networking over the past five or six years that I've known him. And I've been really impressed with his approach and how he builds relationships in a targeted fashion, and is very effective at then helping the right people acquire the right support from the businesses he works with. So with that, Michael, it's great to have you on the show.

Michael Phillips:

Thank you, mate. Great to be here.

Brenton Gowland:

So I thought I've given you a little bit of a bio, do you want to just give us a little bit of your background in your own words so that our listeners can get a bit of a view for who you are?

Michael Phillips:

Sure. Happy to do that. Look, I guess to understand me, you have to dial up right back to the teenage years, and I was very hell bent on football. And I had actually when I about 15 or 16 I got my front teeth knocked out. And I had to take a season off because if I put a mouthguard in, it bring the teeth back out. So I had all this competitive energy that I didn't know what to do with.

Brenton Gowland:

I've got to stop you there. Your teeth look amazing right now. Are they real?

Michael Phillips:

Thank you. They're real. I picked it up off the ground, went to the dentist he chucked it back in.

Brenton Gowland:

Oh wow. Look him up on LinkedIn. He's a good looking man. He's got great teeth. Sorry to cut you off.

Michael Phillips:

Thank you, mate. I'm blushing now. Yeah, it looks I had this competitive energy that it didn't really know what to do with. And I started learning about the business world just over time, after school, studied a business and innovation degree at Adelaide Uni. Ended up winning an Entrepreneur Challenge through the Adelaide Uni which came with a cash prize. I dropped out at about 19 pursued that. And yeah, the startups were then you know, the rest is history. So look, I guess that is one side of my life, which I'm quite proud of. And happy things worked out well. But yeah, look, from the personal standpoint, as well. Got a long term partner, we've got a place together. I'm very close to my family and friends. And I think that is something that has influenced the way I do business and network as well, because I enjoy meeting really cool people learning about them. And I guess having a mutual relationship with them that goes both ways.

Brenton Gowland:

Great. And we had Valentine's Days yesterday. So did you get up to anything interesting with your partner? What'd you do for her?

Michael Phillips:

Or she actually had to work late. So I cooked a Thai red curry, which I'm actually very proud of, because I'm not the most savvy chef in the world but yeah. Turned out alright. All right, I got some brownie points.

Brenton Gowland:

Wow, that's good. Well, I'm very pleased. So obviously, we're here to talk about networking. And as I said, I've seen you over the years progress and been really impressed. So look, and I'm guessing it might have come from your teenage years, but at some point in all of our careers or all of our work lives. Most of us realise the value of networking at some point. So when did this happen for you? And how did you come to understand the importance of networking?

Michael Phillips:

Sure. There's probably two moments in My life, when I reflect back on understanding the value of it, one was during the time I was creating the tech startup for the first time, I had to obviously fund that somehow. And when I was about 18, or 19, I figured that at the Grange Golf Club, which I had some family and friends that were playing there and members, that I would start up a carwash because I felt like all these rich people were playing golf, that their cars, they're sitting there for four or five hours. So one of my early businesses that were non tech related was that and the reason I got to meet with the general manager was because I knew a number of the people there. So in my mind, I started working out look, the access to the right people often come through trusted relationships through a mutual person. And then, I guess the other moment, in my mind that I reflect on when I realised just how important a network is, is when that first startup actually failed. So the one you talked about was my second one. But the first one, you know, is 1920, I didn't have much of a network, and I realised that, you know, getting to achieve the goals that I needed to do meet the people I needed to meet. It didn't actually happen, because I was so early on in the journey, and it was very hard to work my way to get that access. So there was a really positive experience with networking, and one that did well, and then one where I felt like it was sort of a trigger moment for me that I knew I had to improve on it as well.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah, fantastic. That's a great story. And I love the fact that you started our car washing business, because a lot of entrepreneurs that I've met, have started all sorts of crazy little businesses when they were younger. And you're no different. You've done exactly the same thing. How many businesses? Have you actually started?

Michael Phillips:

That one? I mean, there's maybe a handful, but the one that are the most legitimate ones were the tech startups, you know, that one was, obviously a great little business for me at the time. But yeah, the ones that sort of got the legitimacy were the ones that had a solution behind it.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah. So that first, well, that second business, you started to be able to sell that that's a pretty, pretty good success rate, one out of two.

Michael Phillips:

Hey I'll take 50% odds, that's not too bad. Yeah, that one was one that was a little bit unexpected, you know, that is, it contributes to, I guess, the overall networking message where I was putting out some articles onto the internet to drive some traffic to that startup. And I was really surprised with who's actually reading it, you know, other companies around the world. And then that's how it actually turned into an acquisition where a company started using it like that, wanted to bring it in house and then made an offer. So I guess all of these sorts of things really add up to the fact that you just never know who's out there that may be watching, listening, reading, meeting you. You can only connect the dots looking backwards.

Brenton Gowland:

And I'm assuming with that startup, was it just you or was there some other people involved?

Michael Phillips:

So the second one was just me, which is one of the learnings I took from the first one where I felt like there was maybe too many too many chefs in the kitchen. And for the second time around, I was a little bit leaner with it, kept the control kept the vision, and just brought in those contractors to build as and when needed. And I felt like that one was able to scale a bit better over time.

Brenton Gowland:

Excellent. And so you then had to go and sell that yourself, didn't you? Correct Was that your first experience at selling?

Michael Phillips:

Well, actually wasn't because I had a couple of things prior to that, which was actually the reason that I created that startup. So I had, I guess, a couple of sales consulting roles, a couple of engagements. And I started to notice that all the onboarding was done either paper based or in a very messy way. And me being someone that likes to work from a framework, I actually realised, well, yeah, I can make a Google Doc. But my actual idea would be something that helps train me over time. Hence, I created a web application that could actually help you navigate a sales call, and actually interject with a prompt to actually help someone that was training up. So that was sort of the the the idea and the concept at that time. And that's where inside sales, people from those companies that you mentioned, sort of came across it started using it. And it seemed to fill a gap in the market. So it was a great learning experience. And I still take a lot of learnings from that to this day.

Brenton Gowland:

That's absolutely fantastic. Really good to hear. And it's good to hear about what someone who is entrepreneurial, has done in terms of starting businesses, how they've gone about it, the thinking behind it, and the fact that that idea came out as something that you were doing anyway. And it's an interesting story. Now, just moving on, in our series in effective networking that we've done on the podcast, we talk about the fact that there's disciplines involved, that help us become effective networkers. And the first discipline is defining your purpose. So can you talk with us because I know that you've been out and doing networking for years now. Can you talk with us about what you've discovered or what you your purpose for networking is and why you chose that purpose and how it helps you?

Michael Phillips:

Sure. I think there are multiple purposes of why you shouldn't do something or why you could do something. And I think when people typically think of networking, they really think, Hey, I'm going to an event where I'm going to meet other people. That's the typical thought process, people will often go there with the intention to meet a bunch of potential customers. And look, that's okay, if that is your purpose. But I think for me personally, it's about being targeted, it's about being, I guess the person that gives the value rather than looks to take the value immediately. And so for example, when I was at an an earlier role or within business, you would go to an event to meet people when you don't know many people. And that's completely fine. But I think as I've progressed, and now working with very targeted customers within South Australia, you really go to these types of events to meet nice people. I mean, I think we all want to do business with people that we like, and that like us, yep. But also, you know, to make sure that whoever I'm meeting, I can actually add something of value to them. Because I guess that's fundamentally what a relationship is, it's both getting a mutual value of some kind, whether that is just purely personal, or whether it's from a business perspective, as well. So I guess that's my purpose for going and, you know, to events, networking in general, I like to meet cool people hear their stories, but also potentially see what the future might hold for us.

Brenton Gowland:

Do you. Because what you've been talking about is events with networking, do you see networking as being events or broader than that?

Michael Phillips:

I say it broader than that, I guess that's the typical definition of it. But I see the network is something you have a, I guess, a group of people within your life that might come and go as time goes on. But reality is they will stick with you through that lifetime. And I think that the digital platforms of today help enable a network that someone you might have met last week, you can stay in touch, and that can continue whether or not you actually catch up in real life or not.

Brenton Gowland:

So what I'm hearing is that your purpose is beyond your job, right? For networking. Absolutely. Your purpose is to build relationships that lasts for time, but to make good people that you like doing work with spot on. Okay, cool. So a while back, I interviewed you because I was looking at doing a book on networking. And when you were talking about your methodology, how you go about networking, you named it, what did you call it?

Michael Phillips:

Networking Synergy.

Brenton Gowland:

You did. And I thought that was really cool, a cool sounding methodology for a network. There ya go folks. You want to want to come up with a name for your networking methodology. There's a great example. So can you talk us through Networking Synergy, how you came up with that, and how it helps you achieve your purpose of going out and building relationships that are quality?

Michael Phillips:

Sure, I guess it is a bit of a buzzword. But synergy is usually used to define something where two or more groups, or people come together for a greater sum than an individual could achieve. So I guess when you think of it like that, it really is about meeting people. For me, where there is that exchange of value? Now, I don't go in to events or to meet people, usually with that agenda right up front? Because the reality is, with what I do, I actually probably can't help you more often not, then can't it's a very select the sort of group? Yeah, so I guess what I'm looking to do is to find or meet people that either yes, I can, or maybe they know someone that I can as well. So I think it really is just going in without expectations. And having that sort of lack of expectations, I think leads to more genuine relationships, because I'm not here just to take something, I'm here actually to meet someone, see how they're going with their lives, what's their goals. And my favourite thing to do is actually to learn about someone, and maybe there's someone in my network existing that I can introduce to them. You know, it's it's funny to talk about things with my customers that extend into our personal lives. And being able to talk about that I'm actually really good friends with some of my customers now. And we've been to each other's houses, been to events. I think it's a special thing when you're able to do that. So the synergy for me is beyond just work. It's actually how can our lives have greater value?

Brenton Gowland:

Together?

Michael Phillips:

Yep.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah. So that's the synergy part actually going out meeting people and working out who you can run with and build long term relationships with? Absolutely, yeah, that's really good. And you know what? It's really interesting. I was listening to a podcast on LinkedIn the other day about LinkedIn. And they were saying the people who are these particular people who were speaking have followers of 150,000. And I was thinking, wow, that's a lot of work. And they said, the key thing for them was dropping all the business speak and speaking about their lives, and then they found people that they could connect with on LinkedIn and laugh with and build friendships with and so forth. And that's a very interesting thing. Because I think in a sense, a lot of us are trained to be businessy when we're on LinkedIn, and I don't think it should be like Facebook, but it kind of reminds me of what you were saying that you find people that you align with and if you don't show who you really are, if you put up that veneer like we all do, like we're a professional business person. Yes, we are professional business people. We're speaking to Business Builders here. A business builder is someone who wants to change themselves in order that their businesses can grow. So they want to keep progressing. Because if we sit still we don't go anywhere. And sometimes that comes with a putting on a mask. And what I'm hearing from you is it's finding authentic relationships. What I heard from that podcast the other day, is it's about being your authentic self on platforms like LinkedIn, which really starts to attract that network synergy that you're talking about.

Michael Phillips:

Definitely. We're all people at the end of the day. And I think sometimes people, regardless of, if they're at an event, or online, maybe see other people as their roles, not as a person. And I think having that genuineness, if that's a word to, I guess, see someone for who they actually are and learn about them, you'll find out that, hey, yes, they might be an executive at a business or whatever. But they've got their own lives, they've got family stresses, goals of their own. And this is a moment in time. And so my goal is to even myself is to learn about them broader than that broader than to the role that we're in because you never know, what the world might have in store for us both. I've met customers and partners and whatnot, that I would actually consider going into business within 1015 years time, because that's how good of an operator they are. And I think potentially not everyone looks at the long term value each way and the personable attributes that someone has like that.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah, that's interesting. I've got a mate who is a high level professional. And he left a high level role and took six months sabbatical. And he took great delight when he met people out in, you know, business cycles, because like, we'll go to the city and there's a certain bar that we'll go to and a lot of business people go to here and how you said, people see themselves as a role. What do you reckon the first question is people ask when they come along? What do you do now? Correct. And so he would often say I'm gainfully unemployed, and most people wouldn't know what to do. And he talked a lot with that, because he, he just wanted to play because he is this particular person he likes to find out and drill into someone and get built beneath the surface. And watching that happen. A number of times I thought was really interesting, because people got stumped. They didn't know where to go from. I'm gainfully unemployed. What do you mean? Well, I'm not working for anyone. I'm actually when they eventually realised he was taking six months off from what he previously did their whole attitudes change. But, boy, boy, people, people don't know what to do when there's not a clear, tangible thing. You can go this person fits in this bucket?

Michael Phillips:

Well, I think we're going philosophical now, but I actually think, even myself I've battled with this is that our egos are wrapped up in what we do? Yeah, not who we are. So a lot of the time when we're meeting someone for the first time, or catching up with someone we haven't seen in a while, you kind of see them as maybe not the depth that we should. And so even, for example, when my first startup failed, it was a really tough time, because my ego was actually wrapped up within that as a as the success of my life, the value I was placing on my life, whereas that needs to be detached. And when you can be a person without something that you're doing, I think that's where you can get really good results from what you actually want out of life as well. I don't think there's anything wrong with taking six months off, I'd actually think I'm an advocate, I'm a bit of a workaholic. But I'm an advocate now for a bit more balanced in life. And work isn't the ultimate thing all the time. It's very important, but not the be all and end all.

Brenton Gowland:

I think it was Dale Carnegie's book, How to Win Friends and Influence People. I think that last couple of chapters were very poignant in the fact that they were talking about, okay, you've just spent your whole life building these business relationships. But what about your wife? What about your partner? What about this? What about that? Did you build that relationship? Because if you haven't done that, you're not hearing the ethos of this book. And I thought, for a book that was written, I think, 50s 60s or that I was like, wow, that's really, really cool. But to your point. So how do we bring that what you're talking about that authenticity into networking?

Michael Phillips:

I think it's about when you go to these events? What is your intention? What is your purpose? Is your purpose to throw 100 business cards around? Or is it to you know, because I think that's very surface level very shallow, is your intention more so to meet peak cool people find out more about them, then from there, maybe they will something will happen? Maybe not. Maybe they know someone who you could benefit from and you could provide benefit to? I think it's really about defining, I guess, going in with the right intentions, and everyone is going to have a different purpose. I'm not saying that My way is the ultimate way or anything like that. But I've just felt like there is some real deep connections that last a long time. When you approach it for not what can I get right now? It's about what can I give? How can I help? And then, if something happens, great, if not, a I've just been my authentic self and potentially goes back to a I've been brought up, but it's always to try and help where we can.

Brenton Gowland:

Let me throw in a curveball. You're paid to go out and are working. How does that marry up with meeting your quotas for sales?

Michael Phillips:

Well, that's it's a great point because so you get paid for the deals you bring in right You ever see measured a salesperson is very easy to measure their effectiveness as a number either made it or you don't.

Brenton Gowland:

And I've been in businesses where salespeople get bombarded all the time, which I understand why they go to an event, and throw out cards because they're trying to satisfy everyone that's in the background barking at them to make more sales.

Michael Phillips:

That's right. But I think less is more. Now depending on the business you're in, you might be in the small to medium business sort of that that might be your target, where there are heaps and heaps of customers that you could help. But I still genuinely think that you need to be finding a problem, not just selling a product, because there is no solution without a problem. So if you're not taking the time to really understand someone, they might not even have that problem that that you can solve. So what's the point of talking about the solution? Right? Now, I think, yes, we get paid to close a deal or to win a deal. But I don't really look at it typically like that, I look at it as in, if I find out if I meet someone or know someone that is experiencing that problem, and I can provide the solution to take them from their current state to their goal state, and they're happy with that. And our company can provide that, then that is the ultimate goal. It's not finding someone selling them something they don't need. And then moving on, it's actually more of a strategic partnership long term. And that may be also because of the nature of what you know, the business that I'm in now, which it very much is multiple hundreds of 1000s millions of dollars. And that sort of requires a relationship and trust from a personal perspective, but also from a business perspective.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah it's a bit different selling multimillion dollar deals to $20,000 deals.

Michael Phillips:

Absolutely. I mean, fundamentally, we're all still people, but there is going to be an added complexity, the bigger the the deal with the bigger the organisation, all that sort of stuff.

Brenton Gowland:

So is there a plan to what you do? Because a lot of what you're saying at the moment is go out and see what happens organically? Do you plan your activities? How do you plan your activities? And how does that help you put that networking synergy methodology into action?

Michael Phillips:

Sure. So I think I mean, I guess the message today is probably being targeted, right? So there's only so many hours in the day, there's only so many people in your target market, if your intention is to grow your business, right? It's about, hey, where are my customers going? So there's particular industry events, there's particular trade shows, there's particular places they hang out online, it's about using empathy to be in their shoes around what's going to give them the maximum value, and what can give you the maximum value. So I think there's 1,000,001 events that we could be going to, but the reality is you need to pick and choose according to what's going to provide both UNM the right bang for buck, because they're busy. And I mean, a lot of customers want to work with us. But we have to be selective in making sure we actually are solving a problem. So I guess the How to is to be targeted, really understand the customer, and really understand the ecosystem that you're working in. I really enjoy coming along to the business builder events, not to find customers, but to meet other people that are in business. And you get to meet a really diverse range of people learn different things, you know, for me, it's a personal development reason why second, while I come along to them. So I think it's really about just being that good person to understand more broader than just what you're offering.

Brenton Gowland:

Okay. And the interesting on the business builder events, we actually tell people not to sell, we actually, particularly if there's people who come along who have been business development, people were like, nope, hold the bus stop, get to know people, because the work will come. It's like you were saying, you get to know people and 15 years down the track. I've got clients at the moment, just started working with a client that I met probably seven years ago, and all I've ever done is just caught up with them and gone. Well. What you're making is amazing, this incredible technology. Now, it's like, we need you come and help. And there's no, no banter no back, it's just because we already know each other, it's like, we know that we're a good fit. So it's very interesting. When it comes to going to events, though, when it comes to doing what you do, even if it's online. I would imagine, though, that you have some methods and some principles and some strategies you put in play, because to find out, if someone's worth while you've got to open them up and get them talking in a comfortable manner. You got to have them feeling relaxed. So that Michael, I will talk to you I want to talk to you about this. Oh, you're an interesting guy. So what are your strategies? What do you how do you go about navigating a room or interacting online such that you can start opening up those opportunities to create relationships, that match with your methodology.

Michael Phillips:

sure, I guess so. For example, let's say you go into an event, and there's a couple 100 people there doing your homework beforehand. And I think you and Ron have touched on this before. Yep. But it's really about hey, I need to understand who's going to be there, why they would be there. So what what purpose are they going for? And then you know, picking a handful of people that you would like to meet because you think that there might be mutual value that or synergy is you know, we call it Yep. So really it's about doing mean that that sort of background work upfront. And before you get there, from there, I mean, it's no secret, it's like dating, you just go and talk to people like you open it up, it's not in a pushy way, it's not in a weird, desperate way, I guess you just treat them as a person, and you know, like to have a coffee with someone or have a drink, or maybe they're sitting on the same table, let's learn about each other. And I think with that approach, it's not really overly scientific, like, you know, an entire sales process or something like that it's not a framework, it's really just about time is limited, they might have some problems that they want to solve. Maybe they've got some goals, maybe there's some potential synergy there, for lack of a better word. So I think the only way to find that out, though, is through conversation. And I think it's about using events and things like that as an initial introduction to a broader or in depth meeting later on. Because obviously, in a room full of 100 people or 1000 people, there's a lot going on, it's got to be a sort of a light hearted approach. And I guess that's something that I've always taken as an approach to the events we've been to together. And the ones I have in more broader industry events. And for me, it's just about, like I said, having a good time, because people have, if you've had a good experience, I remember you absolutely. And I want to remember them, I want to have a laugh with them. You know, I'm a quite a jovial guy, I like to not take myself too seriously. And I think, look, that's all part and parcel, we're all human beings at the end of the day. And we all want to be entertained. So I think it's just about having that, that ability to connect at a human level before business is even talked about or conducted.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah, 100%. So what I'm really hearing from you is, you want to go into an event, knowing who you want to talk to, before you go, if you can.

Michael Phillips:

If you can, ideally, at least know the industry or the persona that is going to be there. If you don't know the specific people.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah, because then you can find them by going into the room asking people where they are. There's methods of getting to people, but you kind of know the kind of person you want to talk to before you go to the event.

Michael Phillips:

Absolutely. And you can tailor your message to the type of people that are going to be there as well, you know, that's a technology conference, people are probably going to be more geared up on the actual tech. And if it's an executive conference, it's going to be business outcomes and business challenges. And being able to navigate that and understand the different layers and the different levels, about not only what you what you do, what they do, and what the industry does, that sort of information obviously helps contribute to a conversation because you're more relevant.

Brenton Gowland:

So let's talk about follow up, right? You've been to an event, you've met someone, how important is follow up? What do you do? How do you go about it?

Michael Phillips:

I think it's one of the most important things because we've all run into a friend at the pub and said, I'll catch up for drinks and nothing ends up happening. So I think being able to, and that's why I'd say pick a few. Because if you've got 50 cards, or you've connected with 50 people, maybe that starts getting to the impersonal level where it's not really genuine. But if you've got a handful, that's manageable, that's actually a time efficient way of doing things. And you can actually get to the depth that you probably wouldn't have had with 50 people. And that's why when you mentioned someone's got 150,000 followers, or connections or whatever, it was fantastic for them. But are they getting to? You know, depending on what they want to do? Are they getting to that level of depth? Where trust and relationship is there?

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah, I think these people were selling products at scale. But they weren't going about it as going, hey, buy my products. And we're going about it by let's say being authentic? Well, a bit like what you were saying the networking synergy that was kind of sifting through finding people who aligned with what they wanted, and then selling those products or services became a no brainer, because the people would just be what I said earlier with. I see the time is right. I know you well enough, I want your product. So that's their strategy. So it's like we were talking about purpose, their purpose, from what I understood from when I was listening to was to gather people, as many as they could so that they could scale up their sales online.

Michael Phillips:

Brilliant.

Brenton Gowland:

Yep.

Michael Phillips:

Look, I think the follow up is also very important, because like you just touched on timing is often everything, right? And you might have a problem that we can solve. But if that's not number one on the priority list, it's probably not getting the attention. And that's okay, look, I have priorities in my life. You've got priorities in your life. And businesses have different levels of priorities. And I think it's just about making that initial connection, but then that regular cadence to make sure that, hey, here's the relationship, that you can trust me, and I can trust you. And if something happens, great. If not, that's okay. But whenever you need it at that point in future, I'll be here to chat.

Brenton Gowland:

And that makes for a much more relaxed relationship. So let's just talk about that for a minute. You've got people in your network, you followed them up, you're you're picking quality over quantity. What do you do with them? Once they're in your network? Obviously, you keep up with them. You can't do that pub thing of, hey, let's catch up and you never catch up because then you become someone that's unreliable or not really interested in a friendship. What do you do? Because I'm assuming that you've got a fairly big network Michael, how do you keep that network alive.

Michael Phillips:

I do my absolute best with the time that we've got. So one of the things that I've done, that has served me really well is just having a regular cadence in the calendar with them. So if it really is someone that I've connected really well with, I'll have a note in my calendar every three months, give them a call, catch up for a coffee and catch up for a lunch, see how they're going. And that's something that is without expectation, but it gives you an opportunity to get to know someone at a deeper level. And I think that that's been something that's been really good and well received from other people. Now, obviously, you can't do that with everyone. But picking and choosing the people that you align with get on really well with and that there's potential, whether it's at business level or personal level, that's been something that's been great. And just those phone calls, people set up. Thanks for continually checking in, it's been good to get to chat, because life gets away from us as well as, and that's the scary thing. You know, we're already halfway through February of 2023, are barely getting out of 2021. So, yeah, we've lost a few years to COVID.

Brenton Gowland:

Year we have. So what I'm hearing is you actually calendar out for what what period of time in advance do you calendar out for?

Michael Phillips:

Look, if it's someone I'm just meeting, it's probably a longer time. We're not gonna go straight into a weekly catch up or something like that. But I think if it's someone that you have got that momentum with, I've said, Hey, you want to put a breakfast in the calendar for once a month or once every two months? Yep. At that point. I mean, it's there, we can adjust as we go, if he's away, or she's away, or I'm away, whatever, we'll change it to the next month. But I think having that ability to just have it there as a as an expectation that, hey, we'll catch up every once in a while, it's actually been great, because I get to learn more about them, they get to learn more about us. And it's just kept that that dialogue going.

Brenton Gowland:

Yep. So roughly how many people in your network?

Michael Phillips:

Very hard to say? I mean, the people I do that with? Probably 25 to 30.

Brenton Gowland:

Okay that's cool.

Michael Phillips:

But I mean, how do you define a network?

Brenton Gowland:

If your question, but you're gonna map it out, the way I would do it is I would map, you've got your 25 to 30, that are the key relationships, then you've got your others where you might catch up three monthly, six monthly, then you've got your others where it might be yearly, and then you've got others that you just see at events, so you might invite them to come along. But I think you can manage those kind of larger networks, if you have a structure to what you're doing is just kind of what I was getting out with how far out to your calendar.

Michael Phillips:

I think it's a tough one where you're right, you really have to map that out and almost tear them. But yeah, it's like, a don't want to just, I guess, force people to be on a spreadsheet for lack of a better term or in a database. It's more about that quality. Yes, I've got a lot of contact details. But the way I define a really good relationship, even with a customer is if you call them out the blue.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah.

Michael Phillips:

Would they answer just to talk about anything, right? So something that's been instilled in me with my manager at Fortinet has been a great mentor and friend to me as well, is the KLT score. So Know, Like and Trust, right? And I'm sure people have heard of this before.

Brenton Gowland:

Oh I talk about Know, Like, Trust a lot.

Michael Phillips:

There you go.

Brenton Gowland:

I call it a continuum.

Michael Phillips:

There you go. So you know, we would sit down and say, let's say you're about to win a piece of work potentially with a customer, really, on a scale of one to five of the know, like trust, what do you think it is, and if it's really anything less than a four, that's not great. Because if this is a the level of solutions that I was talking about, and you're going to be a strategic partner to them, you really have to crank that up, because that means they don't know enough about us personally. And we don't know enough about them. And that's the best relationships are ones that actually happen outside of that sphere of work and business. It's actually knowing them the best.

Brenton Gowland:

Is it because they spill outside of work, because they'd become great relationships, or do they exist outside of work?

Michael Phillips:

I think vice versa. Yeah. So I've had great relationships be born out of potential and existing customers, just as much as I've had it the other way around. And I think this is why it's very difficult to define, I guess, a exact process or methodology because it's human behaviour. Yeah. So dynamic.

Brenton Gowland:

Okay. So look, I've seen you as a standout networker for a while. So I'm really hearing that you really focus on quality you, you find those people, I would imagine that over time, some people go out of that inner circle, and some people move into it depending on where you're at, and what you're doing and so forth. But everyone has an improvement cycle. So I'd imagine you've improved a bunch since you were doing that 22 year old startup that you were working on and that you amazingly sold. So how do you go about reviewing and improving your performance? Is it just a time thing based on what you're saying organically? Or are there things you do to learn and grow?

Michael Phillips:

Always there to learn and grow? I think that's the life experience is you got to get better. Otherwise, you're just getting worse by staying stagnant. I think, yes, there are the element to what I do professionally, which is look, at the end of the day, you're a salesperson, you have to bring in deals. So yes, you can measure it from that perspective. But I do like to measure it from the sense of that KLT score, and making sure we're having fun along the way because look better and this can get dry at times. And that's where I was saying you need to do it with people that you actually enjoy it. There's, I mean, even for you, you could probably work with 1000s of customers if you wanted. So why did you pick the clients that you have? Because you probably enjoy them. Like you said, you've known some for seven years or longer.

Brenton Gowland:

They have certain values that

Michael Phillips:

Exactly.

Brenton Gowland:

I respect because I've come across, and I've worked for people just because I felt obligated to. And I've been like, wow, that was the worst experience ever. Exactly. But when you work with people that you value, their values, your synergy where they used earlier, it's a much better result, because you can be proud of it. You've helped them. They're improving, but they appreciated as well.

Michael Phillips:

That's right. So I will often have, I guess, for lack of a bit of an open book sort of relationship with them, where I say, look, hey, here's your goals that I know. And here's my goals. How can we both fight? How can we find a spot where we're both winning? That's right. And that's something that you can really only do when that trust has been fostered. Because as a business, hey, we have to make money for multiple reasons. But the main one is, so we can stay in business for you. You guys have to make money, and you guys want a great price. So how do we find that sort of middle ground where we're both winning? And how can we ensure that you're supported? Because, look, there's no one perfect solution. And sometimes things go wrong? How can we ensure that those risks are mitigated, and that is relationships? Customers? I feel, I think that customers want to have a great relationship with me. Because when they call me with a problem, they know, I'll pick up and they know that I'll push for them internally, and then I'll make stuff happen. And I think that is the purpose of having that two way relationship where they can trust me, I can trust them.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah, that's great. Well, I gotta tell you, I really liked that KLT score that you were talking about. So how do you actually define what that is? Like? How do you choose what that score is? Because I'm assuming the customer doesn't mark anywhere. This is where I'm at, in the know, like trust continuum? How do you identify where you're at?

Michael Phillips:

I mean, I think it's a pretty rudimentary ability to score. So zero, you've never met them, you don't know. They don't like you. Five is your best mates. And they trust you, they trust you, if you call, they'll pick up vice versa. So anywhere in between that you can imagine what the different sort of steps are maybe early on, you've met him a couple times, things seem to be going good, maybe a two as that progresses. I think it's really about how much do you know about them personally, because I actually really liked the fact that I know some of my customers, friends, maybe their family, actually, there was a great event that we ran, we actually sponsored the PGA Tour late last year, which was based in Queensland, and we I got to not only take about 12 of our customers, their partners got to come along as well. And I brought my partner and so that, that weekend, that three days together, we didn't talk about business, we got to know each other as people. Now not every business can do that. But the principles are the same. Basically, they get to know my life, I get to know this. And that was where I consider a really strong relationship where they know I'm not going to screw him over and vice versa. I think that it's there's no exact numerical score, you can give a relationship at a point in time. But I think the goal is to progress those relationships to a point where there is that mutual trust and relationship.

Brenton Gowland:

Golf's done well for you, hasn't it?

Michael Phillips:

I don't mind to hit every now and then.

Brenton Gowland:

Well, back to your first job.

Michael Phillips:

Well that's right. Done the 360. So.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah it's great.

Michael Phillips:

Yeah.

Brenton Gowland:

Look, great conversation, Michael, I think we got to wrap up now, because we've been going quite a while. But on the business builders podcast, we're really committed to giving people advice and tips and practical things that they can do right now to improve their performance. So if you were gonna give three tips to our listeners today about how we can improve the most dramatically with our networking efforts, what would they be?

Michael Phillips:

I think one is you have to know, not only your purpose, but your customers, your friends, your networks purpose, now, you're not gonna be able to do that for 5000 people. But for those people, they are either actively seeking or working with, really understand them to be genuine at all times, and be kind because ultimately, you have to help. That's the reality of our world. And it feels good. I mean, I personally feel good when I help someone. And that's an important thing.

Brenton Gowland:

Actually remember that about you? I remember one of the first times we met, you said to me, how can I help you? That was right off the get go? I think that was like the second time we had coffee and that I'm talking six years ago. They were in LA maca on Peel Street. I think it was that's the one. Yeah, there's a hug for a coffee shop in Adelaide, if you're listening in America, or Europe is not going to help you unless you come to Adelaide. But if you come to Adelaide, the Mocha is great.

Michael Phillips:

Good coffee, and then three, I think it is having that ability to follow up on your word. So if you say, I will give you a call. It sounds simple, but a lot of people don't do it. So I think just being true to your word, having great intentions, and then having that cadence to follow up. That will solve 99% have the problems and are also solve 99% of the challenging parts of I guess, networking in general. But being genuine allows you to create those real relationships and friendships.

Brenton Gowland:

Yeah, that's fantastic. So what I'm hearing is really know the people that are in your network, get to know them, spend time, quality time really understanding who they are, be authentic and kind in your interactions with them. And then be true to your word, are your three bits of advice. Those are the three are Michael, thank you so much for joining us. It's been a real pleasure and a really good conversation. So thank you.

Michael Phillips:

Thank you, mate. Thanks for having me.

Brenton Gowland:

No worries. And if you're listening here today, we will be back in a couple of weeks. We've got one more interview in the networking series, and then we'll be into marketing. We hope Ron's having a great time in Kangaroo Island. So Ryan, if you're listening fund that we will see you in a couple of weeks. Thank you for joining us on The Business Builders podcast.

Introduction
Learning the value of networking
Michael's purpose for networking
Networking Synergy - Michael's Networking Methodology
How do we bring authenticity into networking?
When your being paid to network, how do you stay authentic?
How Michael plans his netowrking
Michaels strategies for doing networking
Michael's approach to follow up
How Michael maintains his network
How Michael improves his Networking skills
Michaels three tips to improve our Networking
Wrapping up