Business Builders Podcast
Networking Secrets with Paul Kitching
When your sales role depends exclusively on networking, it really is a numbers game. Today our hosts Brenton Gowland and Ron Tomlian are talking with guest Paul Kitching about how he navigates building relationships at volume to deliver sales results.
Paul has been a networking professional for many years, building his skills while working with Country Road, Rip It Up Magazine, the Australian Traffic Network, and his current role at Fuller Brand Communication.
During the Covid pandemic, Paul famously created a virtual networking event called Coffee With PK. He ran this every day during the pandemic, and it still continues to this day. So far, Paul has run over 300 Coffee with PK events. This event series has won awards and cemented Paul as one of the key networking personalities in Adelaide, South Australia. The show has also achieved a global reach.
Paul's real-world insights and advice are useful for improving our current networking activities.
The topics we cover in this episode are:
- How Paul learned the importance of networking
- Paul's purpose for networking
- How Coffee with PK came about and kept going
- Paul's methods for working a room
- Paul's view on the importance of follow up
- Paul's method of reviewing and improving his performance
- Paul's top three tips for improving your networking results
Be sure to check out Coffee with PK.
Helping businesses find their new shape.
SA Business Builders
Business leaders social group based in South Australia
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
When your sales role depends exclusively on networking, it really is a numbers game. Today our hosts Brenton Gowland and Ron Tomlian are talking with guest Paul Kitching about how he navigates building relationships at volume to deliver sales results.
Paul has been a networking professional for many years, building his skills while working with Country Road, Rip It Up Magazine, the Australian Traffic Network, and his current role at Fuller Brand Communication.
During the Covid pandemic, Paul famously created a virtual networking event called Coffee With PK. He ran this every day during the pandemic, and it still continues to this day. So far, Paul has run over 300 Coffee with PK events. This event series has won awards and cemented Paul as one of the key networking personalities in Adelaide, South Australia. The show has also achieved a global reach.
Paul's real-world insights and advice are useful for improving our current networking activities.
The topics we cover in this episode are:
- How Paul learned the importance of networking
- Paul's purpose for networking
- How Coffee with PK came about and kept going
- Paul's methods for working a room
- Paul's view on the importance of follow up
- Paul's method of reviewing and improving his performance
- Paul's top three tips for improving your networking results
Be sure to check out Coffee with PK.
Helping businesses find their new shape.
SA Business Builders
Business leaders social group based in South Australia
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
To day on the business builders podcast. We're talking with special guest Paul Kitching, a true networking legend and creator of the networking series coffee with PK. So in this episode, Paul shares his insights with us about how he developed his networking skills, and he gives his tips on how we can improve ours. Well, welcome to the Business Builders podcast. We are your hosts, I am Brenton Gowland
Ron Tomlian:And I'm Ron Tomlian.
Brenton Gowland:And Ron, it's Christmas.
Ron Tomlian:It's Christmas. Yes. fantastic, best time of the year as far as I'm concerned.
Brenton Gowland:Time to watch die hard again.
Ron Tomlian:If you consider that a Christmas movie.
Brenton Gowland:It's a Christmas movie!
Ron Tomlian:We're not gonna go there.
Brenton Gowland:Fair enough. Look, this is going to be our last episode for the year everyone. We've had a great year we've achieved some of the things we wanted to achieve. Haven't when we Ron.
Ron Tomlian:Yeah, 23 episodes.
Brenton Gowland:23 episodes, we were going for 24. But we were going for a cadence of one a fortnight.
Ron Tomlian:We just about got there too.
Brenton Gowland:Yeah. So...
Ron Tomlian:But my trip to New Zealand probably put a spanner in that works, so apologize for that.
Brenton Gowland:Oh, that's okay. So, and again, it's Christmas. So we're going to this. We're about a week out from Christmas, which is so exciting. And if you're listening internationally, we know it's Christmas in Adelaide because we have the pageant and then there's a square right in the middle of the city called Victoria Square and Up goes the Christmas tree.
Ron Tomlian:Yeah, a 70 metre Christmas tree. Do you know? You want to know who put that Christmas tree in Victoria Square the first time?
Brenton Gowland:Who put the Christmas tree in?
Ron Tomlian:Me when I was at Adelaide City Council I organised the tree for the very first year and it's it's grown. It was 50 metres to start with now. 70 metres tall. That's my tree.
Brenton Gowland:I'm impressed.
Ron Tomlian:Remember that.
Brenton Gowland:Is it the same tree?
Ron Tomlian:Same tree.
Brenton Gowland:How has it grown?
Ron Tomlian:Well, they put bits on the bottom. Yeah.
Brenton Gowland:Fair enough. Well.
Ron Tomlian:You can't put it on the top. You have to put it on the bottom.
Brenton Gowland:There you have it, folks. Ron is the reason we know it's Christmas in Adelaide. So if you if you come here from an international place for Christmas, you'll see that tree in the middle of our city and Ron is responsible for that tree.
Ron Tomlian:They keep putting it up. Yeah, that's all I care about.
Brenton Gowland:So look, just a couple of quick things. We've had a great year, as Ron said, we've we've achieved a cadence of about an episode every two weeks. And I think the whole series that we've been doing, we've done about three series this year one on strategic planning, one on business development, and now this one on effective networking. We think those have gone reasonably well from the feedback we've been getting.
Ron Tomlian:Yeah, absolutely. And I think a series is the way we'll we'll continue to do things in the future.
Brenton Gowland:Yep. So on that, we're going to be taking a holiday for January, a well deserved break. And we'll come back in February. So we're going to be doing a bit of planning. And we're going to plan out what the year is going to look like. And we'll let you know in the first episode when we come back in February, what that's going to look like. But yeah, we were going to really also try and engage more with you our listener this year, we've we've now bought a URL, we'll have an email address, because we've got a bit of feedback that it's been a little bit difficult to contact us via LinkedIn on some occasions.
Ron Tomlian:Yeah. So all of that, good developments for the new year.
Brenton Gowland:Yep. So our Christmas Special. What's going on Ron?
Ron Tomlian:For me?
Brenton Gowland:No. For our episode.
Ron Tomlian:All right, okay. Yes, well, the episode today we've got a very special guest. We've been talking about networking, effective networking. And if people remember, we talked about the five stages. Define your purpose, plan your networking, actually get out there and do it, review what you've done, and then look at how you improve. Today, we've got a special guest, who's an effective networker himself.
Brenton Gowland:He's a bit of a networking legend, I think.
Ron Tomlian:Absolutely. So more about Paul in a moment. Yes. But we better get the sponsors out of the way.
Brenton Gowland:Okie dokie. So as sponsors, Ron, who are they?
Ron Tomlian:SA Business Builders, and we just had our last event for the year.
Brenton Gowland:And it was fantastic. Had a good mix of young guns and business professionals.
Ron Tomlian:Fantastic. And of course, there's Adapt_CO.
Brenton Gowland:Which is me. So I go into businesses and I help them get their marketing sorted out. And then I make myself redundant in the process and keep in touch with them and make sure they're on the right track over time.
Ron Tomlian:It's all about better marketing.
Brenton Gowland:Better marketing equals better businesses, and we'll talk about that next year. I think I really want to start with a marketing series next year because it's so important, but I won't.
Ron Tomlian:Music to my ears!
Brenton Gowland:Don't let me get distracted right now because there's so much to say. So that's our sponsors.
Ron Tomlian:Yeah, and I think it's time to introduce our guest.
Brenton Gowland:Okay, so our guess today is Paul Kitching and he's currently the Business Development Manager at Fuller Brand Communication, but PK is his acronym that he uses. He's been around for a while. So he's worked at AMP, in retail and Country Road, as a writer. He's been a sales rep and advertising manager for rip it up Magazine. which was a beautiful magazine publication we had here in Adelaide if you're listening again internationally, he was also the National Sales Manager at the Australian Traffic Network before joining the team at Fuller. Now the interesting thing about PK, Paul Kitching and we'll refer to him as PK I reckon. When you're when you've been in Adelaide, everyone knows this man's name. And we've been talking about effective networking. And I think the definition of effective networking can be different for different people, as we've discussed, but it will be really interesting to hear Paul's definition, because what he's achieved is he's achieved a profile where people know him. He did something quite amazing during the COVID lockdown, because we were all confined to our bedrooms, or our houses, etc. He started this thing called Coffee with PK. And it was basically a group where he got people together to just have coffee over zoom. But it didn't just stop at the end of COVID. It kept going and it's still going to this day, and he's won awards for it. And he's brought people together from all around the world. And I think he's done something like 300 episodes, but we'll find out from him in a minute. And I think just so impressive, and just a great way of thinking right, what do we do with what we've got? How do we make use of the technology at our fingertips? And how do we bring people together in a way that keeps people moving, keeps people interacting? And so this man's got his finger on the pulse when it comes to networking. I think Ron.
Ron Tomlian:No wonder we wanted him on the show.
Brenton Gowland:So with that, welcome, Paul to the Business Builders podcast. How are you?
Paul Kitching:I am fantastic. Thank you so much, Brenton. And, Ron, I really appreciate the time and your interest, I suppose in chatting about it. I've been listening to your podcast for a while now. And I love the fact that you've covered both BD and networking of recent, both things that are very important to my life and my world. And it's brilliant to just be a small part of what you're doing.
Brenton Gowland:Well, that is our pleasure. And whenever we do a series, we always try to get an expert on the subject to come in. And really, we like to hear from their point of view about how they go about doing what they do. And I can really see from the, I've known Paul, just people who are listening probably for 15 years now from back in your traffic networking days. And you've always been, you know, there was a saying that Paul used to go to the opening of an envelope.
Paul Kitching:Correct.
Brenton Gowland:Do you still do that?
Paul Kitching:My wife often reminds me of that. And she and she also says that I'm not networking. I'm not working. But I'm not working. I'm at I am working. Not networking.
Brenton Gowland:Ron has a famous line about that.
Ron Tomlian:Same thing. Yeah. I often got told that, You know, there's only one letter difference between networking and not working.
Paul Kitching:That's right.
Brenton Gowland:Okay, we're going to talk today a little bit about the results that come from networking, as I know you're getting good results for Fuller, who you're working for at the moment. So let's dive into the questions. So do we call your Paul or PK by the way?
Paul Kitching:PK is awesome.
Brenton Gowland:Is that what you prefer?
Paul Kitching:Yeah I prefer it.
Brenton Gowland:PK.
Paul Kitching:That's awesome. Thank you.
Brenton Gowland:Excellent. The brand goes on this is we could do another series with Paul about personal branding. We can do that next year. Anyway. Look, Paul, as our careers progress, we generally discover the value of networking over time. And you've obviously from your bio, you've had a long history of working at Country Road and different places. So how did you discover the importance of networking? And really get an understanding that wow, this is something that's really important?
Paul Kitching:Yeah. Well, it's funny, you mentioned Country Road, because I believe it was back then. I was working in retail, and as a part time job for Country Road, I was working at AMP at the same time, just working Friday night, Saturday mornings at Country Road, back in the 90s. And working there, it taught me that I wanted to work in sales, but also that networking and building relationships was the difference I suppose, for me. And it was the incredible sales training that I learned a country road that was to this, to this day, the best that I've ever had in my career, because it was all based around back then around relationship building positivity, your attitude quotes, like Your attitude, not your aptitude determines your altitude and things like that it was all about developing relationships with customers. And essentially, that was my first taste in networking. So and then, you know, making sure keeping in touch with customers making sure that you know, you're chatting with them. And yes, at the end of the day, we're selling, you know, chambray shirt for $70 that they could have bought for $10 down the road. But it was that it was building that relationship and the people coming back in and having like any good retail store though the relationships with them. And it was also about that the same very thing at Rip It Up magazine back in the 2000s where I really ramped it up and I realised that it again made a difference to my role in sales for a free magazine that relied on sales. You know we were selling the idea of someone picking up a free magazine and maybe noticing the ad. So again, networking was the key with all my clients there.
Brenton Gowland:Great. So you learned it young and it came through what training through Country Road, experience?
Paul Kitching:Yeah, absolutely. experience and training and then I suppose just trying and trying everything because obviously it was also as we know with sales, there's so many things we could talk about there but it was absolutely learning the sales skills but remembering that building the relationships was the key behind all of that.
Brenton Gowland:Yeah, great.
Ron Tomlian:PK. In this series, we've been discussing the disciplines that help us become more effective networkers. And the first discipline we talked about was defining your purpose. Can you talk us through your purpose for networking? And why you chose thet purpose and how it's helped you?
Paul Kitching:Sure thing. Yeah, great question. I've been listening to your podcast. And I love the fact that you've covered up all of those things. And the fact that purpose is such an important element of it. My role at Fuller is business development. You know like we all working on it. Should be new business development, actually, because it's all about introducing new people to what we do. And what we do at Fuller it and yeah, sure, I am the BD manager. And effectively I do sell our professional services. But the key and I suppose my purpose for being so good at networking is to build relationships. And whilst it may be about new business, we do know that that may not actually come for months, you know, for years. And you have to keep nurturing those relationships. And so, I chose this purpose early on in my sales career when selling the advertising at Rip It Up. And again, but by selling but not blatantly selling. I've never been a never will be a sales cowboy, I suppose. And so, which is why I never worked at a commercial radio station, or a TV network or the like, it just wasn't my style. And I went for jobs there. And I think they probably realised, No, no, he's not going to be hardcore sales, he's going to be the, even though I probably would have been perfect, because I would have been able to develop those relationships. But that's how I remind myself of my purpose of building relationships. And, and I suppose, and actually one of our biggest wins recently at the agency came about from a relationship that I had with a person in my previous role at the Australian Traffic Network, a job I went, went to after Rip It Up. Gosh 10 years ago. So I kept in touch with this person. And recently, they reached out on LinkedIn and just said, Oh, would you be interested in going for this tender? And of course, it was all the preparation and everything that came before that it wasn't just that they woke up one day and thought, Oh, I was spoken to that PK guy forever. It's because of the fact that I kept in touch, saw them at an event, sent them notes here and there.
Brenton Gowland:That's really important. The words you just said they're kept in touch.
Paul Kitching:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, look at that. And then obviously, I then had to open the door and introduce them to where I work. But all that that's all I really do. You know, I open the door, and then smile and wave and walk away. But I'm happy. But I've open that door. And I suppose those people have come through that door because of the trust, I suppose they have in me and we know how important trust is and how trust comes about from building that relationship and developing that trust.
Brenton Gowland:And I think the thing that works with that as well as you've been at Fuller for like eight years now.
Paul Kitching:Just about yeah.
Brenton Gowland:And people know, when people get to know you, they would realise that he's not going to stay at a place that that isn't a good place to be and doesn't deliver otherwise, it would damage your reputation.
Paul Kitching:Absolutely. We're all an extension of the brand, wherever we are, we are an extension of that brand. Well, that's a really interesting point, isn't it?
Ron Tomlian:I mean, that's to my way of thinking, that's the essence of branding is understanding that you are part of the brand that you're representing. And everyone who is involved in that organisation is a representation of that brand.
Brenton Gowland:So your purpose in one sentence,
Paul Kitching:My purpose is to build relationships, and continue to keep in touch with those people.
Brenton Gowland:That's great. Cool, and then everything else flows from there. So look, your Coffee with PK sessions, like we just mentioned that a while ago, it looks like it takes a bit of planning, right? How much planning and pre planning work do you do for that show and for your other activities and initiatives? Also, I'm sure our listeners would love to know how you go about doing your planning? Because that's a pretty important part of networking.
Paul Kitching:Absolutely. Yeah, look at it. And it's interesting. And thank you for mentioning the coffee chats, because it's certainly something that just kind of happened out of the blue, because you know, as you pointed out, we're all just sitting around in our bedrooms, offices, whatever, and my job, my job what my role in having to chat with people couldn't just do that. So it was actually my wife, I have to thank she she said, why don't you just like make yourself a coffee and then ring that person and have it on speakerphone and chat with them and was around the time we were starting to do zoom calls. And I thought that I'll take it one step further. People starting to get used to doing zoom or Google Chat calls, etc. And so I said, so I'd literally put a just a post on my social saying, tomorrow at 1030, I'm going to be doing a zoom call. And I literally just throw it out there. Let's call it Coffee with PK because that's exactly what I was doing. And then it just blew up out of there. So and but it's interesting, you asked about preparation, because back then there was crazy preparation that had to go on because I did it every day or every working day. So five days a week at 1030. So I just thought like anything that becomes a success. I feel you have to put in the hard yards and you have to keep going. And I've spoken with a number of people who don't go on about your know big noting myself. But people have come back and said that they believe the reason that it's still going and a two and a half years, nearly three years later is I suppose because of the consistency and in anything that we do. It's important to have that consistency. So yes, and they pretty much been the saving grace for me for my job and for my sanity. The fact that you know I managed to create something and branded it Fuller, where I work, and the fact that you know it kept us relevant and on people's radar, it kept me in a job. And were in the business communication, and so I figured it's just an extension of that. So it was a lot of work. And there still is, I mean, these days only do it once a week, no sorry, never say only, never say just. I'll do it once a week.
Brenton Gowland:That's good.
Paul Kitching:And that's fine. And that's it's, I suppose it's become its own brand. It's got its own URL, and it has become an extension of who I am of who Fuller are. And it's a way I suppose, of keeping us on people's radar. And for me, it's a way of continuing to network with people. And I've created my own little content marketing around it as well, I suppose for a while there, I was doing a weekly video recap, but that's back when I was doing it. So it went from being five days a week to when we move back into the offices, I thought, well, you know, I've got to actually do my job as well. So I may get dropped back to two days a week online. And then one day actually then started doing them in real life IRL, which people loved as well. And so what I'm trying to get at is that, you know, it's like anything that we do, you know, you've got to listen to what you're doing and, and, and make sure it evolves so that it doesn't die, right. So you want to work the best way for you effectively as a person, but also for your brand and the company. So for me, and because it was essentially a networking event, I saw that I wanted to keep it going. But now it has dropped back to one day, one day a week. And that's happening every Tuesday morning. And for some people, it's just a way of meeting others. For others, it's a way of practising their elevator pitch because I get people to start it up. I know you've talked about the importance of elevator pitching. And that's exactly what I do I get people to, we start by telling us who you are, what you do. And then I get everyone to share what they're grateful for. So gratitude brings everyone on the same level playing field. And that's why you can have I could have a student, I could have a CEO, I could have the Australian of the Year I could have anybody on that chat. And they all you know interconnect and relate and feel like they're just having a chat at a networking event.
Brenton Gowland:That's fantastic. So but with the planning, what you said it was mad planning to begin with, was that searching for people online on LinkedIn? Was that going through all your old lists and so forth? How did you do the planning then? And what does it look like now?
Paul Kitching:Sure. Great question. Yeah, it absolutely was, it was definitely going through my LinkedIn, making sure that I was being active on socials about it, but without selling it too blatantly. And it's never been a sales pitch. And certainly this isn't either, but it's certainly never been a sales pitch for where I work. It's certainly always and that's, I suppose what's made it attractive as well. And I've and people come on the chat and start talking about what they do. And that's fine, but I won't, sorry, I'm answering your question in a roundabout way. But it's certainly it's so therefore, the kind of people that I want on the chat, it doesn't really matter who you are and what you do. But I certainly want to make sure that they know that they can speak about what they do. And at the end of the day, we know the most effective way of networking is to not sell yourself, it's it's to talk about what you do, and to find something interesting in someone else. And then hopefully, they find something interesting in what you do. And then it becomes a sale without it actually effectively becoming a sale. So I definitely went through all of my database and reached out to them and just let them know, look, this is what it's about kind of thing and made them realise that it's not necessarily a selling pitch. It's just a networking group.
Brenton Gowland:Yeah great. So how does that planning something like that which you've created, differ for you're planning from going to an event?
Paul Kitching:Good question, I suppose planning to an event. So you mean like, what what am I how do I roll?
Brenton Gowland:Do you get a list of the people that are attending and think, oh, I want to talk to that person, that person that person? Or do you just because I know we've had a chat before and you said what I'll do an event is I'll go up to the table before everyone gets there and look at the business cards.
Paul Kitching:Do you remember that one?
Brenton Gowland:I remember everything we talk about Paul.
Paul Kitching:Mate, I love it. No, I, my my tips for events are getting there early. And thanking the organisers, you know, be the person that they want at every one of their events, right. Be that person that they want there without being annoying. I do scan the name tags, and so don't just look for yours. And like yesterday, I was at an event for Uni SA and the girls there and they came up and gave me my nametag but I was still looking. I was looking around just to see who else was going to be in the room, you know, and then I just dive in, you know, and I think so that's definitely part of the preparation.
Brenton Gowland:Do you know what I've done ever since we had that chat. I walk in and I take a photo of the nametag table and just walk away and go.
Paul Kitching:I've done that. And I've been told off. Actually one event, I can't even remember what it was, and they asked me to delete the photo. I'm like, but I'm at the event. But it's actually that's a really good tip. Because often because not everyone's necessarily going to be there or you can then send them a note later and saying.
Brenton Gowland:Correct.
Paul Kitching:I know you're at the event or you maybe you had planned to be at the event, but we didn't get a chance to chat. And so that's another really cool way of being able to connect with them.
Ron Tomlian:Yeah. What are the methods and principles do you use when you're actually doing going to an event? How do you work the room and?
Paul Kitching:Yeah, I dive in. I mean, I'm not shy, but and I know not everyone finds it comfortable to be able to do it, but there will be some icebreakers that you can use to actually start that conversation. I would have a look at someone's nametag and comment on their company. Or if they have a name that looks hard to pronounce, ask them how to pronounce their name. So people generally love talking about themselves. You know, the trick is even better. When there are no name tags, and you ask someone their name. This happened the other night and a girl said her name was Marie. Now, I didn't want to assume that that was spelled M A R I E. So I just always said to what I say M A R E E. She's like, No, it's IE. So the by and then there was the other girl was Haley. And I said, Oh, is that with an IE or an EY. And so I met both these girls at an event and asked Him that very question. And people love to hear their names spoken out loud right back to them. But it's also a clever way of remembering someone's name. So if you say it back to them, and ask them to say your name back to you, then you'll hopefully remember it or somehow seep into your subconscious.
Brenton Gowland:It's the worst thing in the world is when you meet someone and then five minutes later, you can't remember their name. You know, that other person comes into the group and says, Hi, Brenton, how are you? And who's your friend? Yeah, no, that's excellent. Paul,
Paul Kitching:I've got another top tip. Actually, I forgot about names and people because we do meet people and or they may remember us, but we can't remember their name. And if I'm with someone who's my plus one, a mate, whatever, if I don't introduce them by name, they know specifically, and I remind them this on the way that they need to ask that person their name, and then I listen. So that's another.
Brenton Gowland:Oh, that's good. That's like a wing man situation.
Paul Kitching:So definitely have that have that wing person. Because if they are plus one, they're coming along to an event with you know, they're getting into an a cool event or something like that. And so you get them to do a bit of the networking for you.
Brenton Gowland:So how often do you just that's a really interesting point. How often do you tag team at an event with someone?
Paul Kitching:Oh It depends, I mean, I will gladly go to an event by myself and just go and walk around and have some fun to chat with people. So it just depends on the event as well. But definitely that that whole tag teaming, I think is I mean, but again, you never want it to be to be obvious as well, you know, and this is the whole key, I think, with networking, ie you don't want no one wants to be sold to, you know, you just as I said before, you just want to have that chat and find something where you hopefully can find a connection. And coming back to that name thing, I think it's really good. And even if they've got a simple name, and just just, you know, say it back to them, Oh Dave, great to meet you. Yeah, my name is PK, that's the letter P, the letter K or you know, my name is Brenton, B R E N T O N, or whatever you know, you just say. And so hopefully, you know, people love being remembered, right. And they, they want to remember that you've remembered them. And it makes and then obviously, as we said, and you guys have always said, you know, do your elevator pitch and make sure that you nail that because that will often change and make them make sure it leaves them wanting more. So you know, and if they have been listening, and show them that you have been listening by asking them a question as well about what they do. So yeah, I think the other the final one that I would say is that when I meet someone, I like to say what keeps you busy?
Brenton Gowland:Oh
Paul Kitching:So what keeps you busy? Is a really good thing to say rather than saying Where do you work? Because where do you work is making...
Brenton Gowland:I hate that question.
Paul Kitching:Is making a massive assumption, right. So they may be a stay at home parent, they could be retired or a mature age student who knows all in between jobs. So it and but they are just as important as that person that's been at a company for 25 years. So I never want people to feel uncomfortable. So I feel that it's very important. And that's a nice icebreaker.
Brenton Gowland:What keeps you busy?
Paul Kitching:What keeps you busy.
Brenton Gowland:Yep. That's great.
Paul Kitching:And people can have fun with that as well. Like, you know what, I've been on the beach all day or you know, whatever. And you can, can have a bit of a laugh, and hopefully, you want to make, for someone that you've never met before. You want to make them feel as comfortable as possible straightaway.
Brenton Gowland:I also ask people, what's the most exciting thing you've been working on lately? Or doing or whatever else? I find that's a good one.
Paul Kitching:Yeah, absolutely. And you don't only don't have to talk for long either, you know, maybe suggest that you can connect on LinkedIn and etc. And then next day, and then chat further kind of thing. We're all there to meet people and not talk to the same person for the whole event, or worse, the same person, every function, you know, you don't want to do that. Or even worse, if if you've, I highly recommend, if you go to an event with someone that you work with, do not talk to them at that event, you see them at work. Don't waste your time, you will see them at work, you can chat to them there, you are there to network, effectively, not to chat to your mate from work.
Ron Tomlian:You just spoken about in maybe connecting on LinkedIn and so on, talk to us about follow up, we've been pushing just how vital it is to get results. And I'd like to know, if you have any stories that illustrate how crucial follow up is?
Paul Kitching:Absolutely. I look I try to remember at the end of the day, my job is sales but without actually selling and that I am there to ultimately at some point convert networking into sales. But you know, how do we do that? And I also you know, I, as I said before, no one wants to be sold to a function. So I've learned that it's it's all about relationship building, coming back to what I said and people and our people don't realise that they are in fact being sold to. And I feel that that's just the way I feel that and I know I've been successful in that. So it's keeping in touch. It's finding something that connects you and as you said it's following up so it's adding someone on LinkedIn the next day, and there's really effective way of doing that, which I'll talk about a bit later in my tips. But it's it's as I said before, it's it's remembering that you are an extension of the brand you work, like I am with Fuller. And I've always had that attitude in every job that I've had. When I worked at Country Road. You know, I wasn't just waiting for Country Road at the time, you know, during the day, I was also at my break, or when I was at home when I was.
Brenton Gowland:So you were wearing the chambray shirts when you're out were ya?
Paul Kitching:Correct wearing the hat with their paisley tie and, and a long, long overcoat.
Brenton Gowland:That's great.
Paul Kitching:I know you're a fan of the long overcoat Ron. But absolutely. And then when I was at Rip It Up, and like going to concerts, going to gigs, etc, you know, I am an extension of that brand. So what I'm trying to say is that it's, follow up is crucial, because it doesn't matter. Even though you might meet that person at a function or whatever, you're going to see them again, or you're hopefully going to chat with them again. So you're you're always, always going to be I suppose on brand. And follow up is crucial, because you've worked so hard on making that first impression, and that you don't want to lose it. So look. And I know you've mentioned it before in previous episodes and absolutely agree that you have to follow up inside a week, or even days. I don't know, do you guys say days or weeks? I can't remember?
Brenton Gowland:I would generally do it within 24 hours?
Paul Kitching:Right. Wow. Okay. So I'm
Brenton Gowland:At very worse three days? Yes, is where I would be going oh man. I've not achieved what I need to I take longer than three days.
Paul Kitching:Absolutely. And stay on their radar. Look, I have had situations where I've called someone the next day. And then they've said, Look, I'm glad you did, as I've been thinking about what you said. And we do need to chat more about X Y Z. And so that's why I suppose the follow up is crucial that I have had other situations where I may not necessarily have followed up on someone, and then I've seen them get in touch with our agency through someone else kind of thing. And I'm like, errrrh!
Brenton Gowland:That's an interesting point, right. Because like a lot of people go into businesses like yours as a BD or whatever else, and there's a lot of pressure to sell. And, you know, I know from my past when it's like sell, sell, sell. But if do that we're going to drive away the clients, we really need to work on relationships. So is it volume that gets you around that hurdle?
Paul Kitching:Yes, I would say and also realising that you're not going to win everything, you're not going to win every pitch that you put out there, if you're tender you go for, and I actually learned something I'm don't know if you heard this one. But let's say you put out 10 proposals, and you may win three of them or something like that whatever percentage, it doesn't really matter what the percentage is, those seven jobs or proposals that you lost, you should every time that person says no or rejects, you should thank them because you are getting your closer to that next, that next win. And so it is it is about volume. Absolutely. And being a being aware that you know, not everybody's going to want to work with your suit what the what the way you work. And so just move on the quicker and move on, the quicker you're going to get to. I know this is not about sales, but.
Brenton Gowland:It's all related.
Paul Kitching:Yeah, but they're quickly you go. And that's why I'm a massive fan of Who Moved My Cheese, the book. The philosophy. Oh my gosh, fantastic. It's all about moving on. From there, it's about too much or too long. It's a long philosophy, long story, long story that really cut short it. Two mice that everyday they go towards the piece of cheese in the maze, and then one day the cheese is gone. And one mouse is lamenting the fact Who Moved My Cheese, I'm going to stay here until someone brings that cheese back, the other mouse takes off to look for more cheese. And the quicker that the mouse you know the the quicker you go off to look for more cheese, the better. So it's all about moving on etc. And change.
Brenton Gowland:Now, listen. A quick one is you were mentioning earlier that when you go to an event, you shouldn't talk with your fellow workers and you go out and talk to new people. Now that takes a lot of courage. And I know that sometimes the reason people don't do that is because they're really starting to come to grips with the fact that I've got to step out here on my own because networking can be quite daunting. Right! So my question is, and know you've your master network now and you have been for quite some time. But how have you improved? How have you reviewed and improved your performance? Because I'm imagining when you started at Country Road, you have been pretty green.
Paul Kitching:I was very.
Brenton Gowland:So how did you go through that review and improve process and identify the things you needed to do? Because there'll be people who go to that networking event and stand in the corner talking to a staff member because they're paralysed by inability to?
Paul Kitching:Of course.
Brenton Gowland:You know.
Paul Kitching:Yeah, absolutely. It's a really good question. Because and I do try and test myself I do try and push myself to go and meet someone that I may never have met before, or may see them walk in and think, Oh, I wonder what that person does. And try and talk to them and realise that it doesn't matter what they do or who they are or where they are, even if, for example, they may be work for a company that you know, already has someone else we're looking after their marketing or their sales, whatever, but that that person may move on to another job, or they probably will at some point. So if I want to continue to build that relationship, so I continually push myself I push myself to go to events that I may not have wanted to realising that that it may be of an ultimate benefit to me. I don't say I do say yes to a lot of things that don't say yes to everything. But at an event I will use my notes function on my phone to note down whomever I've spoken to even if I've already connected with them. So I spend a bit of time the next day. I'm going through that and I'll either send them a note on Linkedin insane, great to see you last night, you know, was really good to chat about whatever, or I will make sure that I followed up with new people, send them a note and try and you know, and you never know that you know if that will trigger them to come back with a request for work or anything just staying on their radar keeping in touch, as I said. And I realised that no matter how good we are we all we can always learn no matter how good we are at everything. And if you're, if you're you're not, you're certainly not ultimate what you do, if you think that you never need to learn. And I've got to say, No, you did not ask me to say this, I have been enjoying your podcast and the series about networking, and also the BD series. And there's so many great tips and reminders. And that's just the you know, we I think we have to refresh our learnings. So it's, it's doing things like listening to podcasts like this one. Going to events where people talk about networking, or relationship building, learn, or you can perhaps be a mentor, you know, if you can find a mentor, that's fantastic. But I think it's great. You know, either side of that.
Brenton Gowland:You know, what's really interesting in what you've just said, there, you said, perhaps be a mentor. I've found that when, like, even for this podcast, when we have to put topics on the table that we have to discuss, I learn from it, because I have to actually go and study to actually put things in order. We went and saw Jordan Peterson the other night.
Paul Kitching:Fantastic.
Brenton Gowland:He's the famous state psychologist. And one of the things he was talking about was the fact that if we write things down, or we study something, it orders our thoughts. So when you have to mentor somebody, you really have to think things through to order your thoughts, and it helps a lot.
Paul Kitching:Yeah, absolutely. I've been a mentor with UniSA now for 11 years part of their business school. And I absolutely love it. And I've found that it's relearning everything that you've learned over the years kind of thing. And then sharing your knowledge, I think it's really important to do that. So therefore, to learn more about what, and learn more about what your mentees are doing. And that's what I've found with the young students at UniSA. I'm learning more from them as much as they are learning from me. And that's the beauty of mentoring.
Brenton Gowland:Excellent cool.
Ron Tomlian:And I have to say, to reinforce that point, I've learned more about business, or being a business mentor than I ever did when I was actually in business.
Brenton Gowland:It's your professional job, you must be learning all the time.
Ron Tomlian:Well, that I am and I learn from helping other people. And you know, it's the same as Paul was saying, if you really want to understand networking, help someone else with their networking.
Brenton Gowland:Yeah, great.
Paul Kitching:It will be refresh and reaffirm what you do.
Ron Tomlian:Okay, Paul, the Business Builders Podcast is all about giving practical advice to business professionals and young guns. So it would be great to wrap up our discussion today with what you recommend, as the top three things you can do right now, to improve your networking results. Most dramatic,
Paul Kitching:Excellent, great question. And here's something I prepared earlier. So I do have three really good tips. My first one is when you get to an event and you get the nametag given to you put it on the right side of your body, put it on the right side, it's not I know it's not natural for guys, there's we have a pocket or a jacket, you know, with on the left. But of course, if we're wearing a jacket, like all stylish men that we are wearing a pocket square, they're right in there, and we don't want to cover that pocket square, right?
Ron Tomlian:Absolutely.
Paul Kitching:The reason I say this is that when you shake someone's hand, the natural thing is to approach with your right hand, right. So the natural gaze will be all along that arm all the way up to your pec and so therefore, they will see your nametag straight away, right. So I always have it on the right when I want to shake someone's hand, the natural gaze will be to the right. If it's on the left, you'll find that you know when you go to shake their hand, or you're shaking their and they've got their nametag on the left, you're trying to look at it and see what it is.
Brenton Gowland:And your shoulder goes away from them.
Paul Kitching:Yeah, exactly. So it also and also means for ladies that many people are not looking all over your upper region, which may appear a tad awkward. So if the nametag is right there for that person to see it, then it's you know, you can see it straight away. And you can take a quick glance at it without having to look around for it make it look awkward. So it's I suppose it's a way of seeing someone's name. And it's also gold, when you have the name tag on the right, and it's in the line of sight. And if that other person forgets your name, you're doing them a favour as they can quickly glance it and be reminded of it. Or if it works in reverse, as well as long as the person it also has their name tag on the right. Because you know, you might forget their name and kind of things like Oh, that's right, that is John far out. So I have it on the right. I want more people as many people as possible to do that and then it's going to help both of us.
Brenton Gowland:Okay, tip number one.
Ron Tomlian:Next time I go to an event, we'll know how many people listen to this podcast by the number who start putting their name tag on the right.
Paul Kitching:Put it on the right.
Ron Tomlian:Okay, number two.
Paul Kitching:Don't waste time at a networking event time is precious. We all just want to meet someone and move on and I know I keep saying they don't want to be sold to so just chat with them. And I think the key is to be totally honest about your situation. You can say look, I've only got half an hour I've only got an hour because I need to take my kid to sport or I need to you know go to the shops on the way home otherwise the family won't eat tonight so you can have a bit of a fun and bit of a laugh about it. But you are there for a good quality time. Not a long time and the other other thing is to move around and meet as many people as possible and mentioned you can mention your time and you say, look, I've got to go to another function or which is more than fine, you can end then you can just say to them, Look, do you have a card? Or do you mind if I jot down your name and we connect on LinkedIn tomorrow? I'd love to continue this conversation when we both have more time. So yeah, be really effective with your time.
Brenton Gowland:Yep. And that kind of rolls into your purpose that you talked about earlier? Yours is, your whole purpose is to build relationships at volume, I'm imagining.
Paul Kitching:Absolutely.
Brenton Gowland:So yeah, if you're gonna make most use of a network you want to, because that's only the start of the relationship, correct?
Paul Kitching:Absolutely.
Ron Tomlian:Number three.
Paul Kitching:Well it actually, yeah it does roll into number three. So after you meet someone, I know we've talked about this, but add them into your LinkedIn network the next day or soon after. But with two key additions, I only ever do it on the desktop. So only only only ever connect with people via desktop, it's easy to do on any phone. But the problem, when you do it on your phone is you press Connect, and it just sends them the Connect connection. I always always recommend people adding a note. So if you do it on and also that's the whole thing, like if you see on LinkedIn, often they'll come up with recommended people you should you should meet in your network kind of things. If you just press them their name or connect it with a will just go straight to them. If you clicked if you click on their profile, and then where it says Connect, it will then say would you like to add a note and always add a note, because you can never assume that someone will know who you are. Or remember that check you had the night before. So leave a note saying, Hey, John, it was really good. I really enjoyed our quick chat about blah, blah, blah, mentioned something you talked about, and that is going to start the relationship right there and then. It may be the reason that they who knows they could be the most popular person in the room, they may get 20 requests, but the person that actually add the note is the one that they're going to remember.
Brenton Gowland:You showed you listened to them.
Ron Tomlian:I couldn't agree more. In fact, just as a rule of thumb, I never connect with anyone as in accept anyone unless they've written me a note. That is music to my ears.
Brenton Gowland:That's great.
Ron Tomlian:So and I have to say just recently you did exactly that.
Paul Kitching:There ya ga.
Ron Tomlian:And so we're connected now.
Paul Kitching:I love it.
Brenton Gowland:Excellent. So that was your tips. Look, that was really great, Paul, and I'm sure people would have picked up two or three or four things from what we're discussing today. So thank you so much.
Paul Kitching:Thank you so much for the opportunity. I absolutely love networking. I love the opportunity to talk about it. I feel comfortable doing it and yeah, it comes second nature for me these days. But it's something that I continue to work on and and you know in platforms like this awesome podcast is just another way of as I said before refreshing your learnings and continuing to come back and listen to them so that you're, you always want to better yourself.
Brenton Gowland:Yeah, exactly.
Ron Tomlian:So what I just like to say on behalf of Renton live thank you for coming on board today PK and have a Merry Christmas.
Brenton Gowland:Yes. And to all of you who are listening, we just want to say thank you for listening to the show. Thank you for your feedback. It's been fantastic and we hope you have a safe and happy festive season everybody.
Ron Tomlian:Bye.
Brenton Gowland:See ya later.
