Business Builders Podcast
Strategic Planning - Where to begin?
Today's episode is part two of the Demystifying Strategic Planning series. Our hosts Brenton Gowland and Ron Tomlian talk about where to begin your strategic planning.
The topics covered in this first part of the series are:
- Where are we now as a company
- Understanding our Macro Environment
- Understanding our Micro Environment
- Understanding our Internal Environment
- Summarising the intelligence we gather with a SWOT analysis
- Conclusion and information on the next episode
Helping businesses find their new shape.
SA Business Builders
Business leaders social group based in South Australia
Borough Markets
AI driven digital transformation company that exist to level the digital marketing playing field by
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Today's episode is part two of the Demystifying Strategic Planning series. Our hosts Brenton Gowland and Ron Tomlian talk about where to begin your strategic planning.
The topics covered in this first part of the series are:
- Where are we now as a company
- Understanding our Macro Environment
- Understanding our Micro Environment
- Understanding our Internal Environment
- Summarising the intelligence we gather with a SWOT analysis
- Conclusion and information on the next episode
Helping businesses find their new shape.
SA Business Builders
Business leaders social group based in South Australia
Borough Markets
AI driven digital transformation company that exist to level the digital marketing playing field by
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Welcome to part two of our series about demystifying strategic planning. In today's episode, we're talking about how to establish the starting point to begin your planning. Ron talks about his true feelings for Simon Sinek. And we ask the question, why is there only one oyster vending machine in South Australia? Welcome to the Business Builders podcast. I am Brenton Gowland.
Ron Tomlian:And I'm Ron Tomlian.
Brenton Gowland:And, Ron, we're very lucky because last time we did a podcast, you said that we might need to do an obituary for you or an epitaph, because you were going shark diving, but you're here, you survived.
Ron Tomlian:It was shark cage diving, a very important differentiation between shark diving and shark cage diving. And no limbs lost. So I'm a happy man.
Brenton Gowland:We're happy too, to still have you because we wouldn't have wanted to have anyone else have to come and take over even someone as lovely as Gordon Edwards.
Ron Tomlian:Yeah, absolutely. Well, Gordon, you can you can look for somewhere else to do your podcast.
Brenton Gowland:Yeah. And if you're listening to this podcast, and you're going, Who are these guys talking about? Gordon is a mentor in our circles, who coaches a lot of people in business and he's a he's a great guy. But that's beside the point.
Ron Tomlian:And funnily enough he's over in Port Lincoln at the moment.
Brenton Gowland:Is he, so you're a like doing just a wind through everyone going shark diving one at a time?
Ron Tomlian:I think he is, I think the most adventurous thing is going out to the oyster farms.
Brenton Gowland:Okay, but yeah, okay. Great Oysters!
Ron Tomlian:Oh fantastic. And now in coffin Bay, there's a oyster vending machine, just calling out to anyone who is desperate for oysters is an oyster vending machine, but you have to go to Coffin Bay to get them.
Brenton Gowland:There's only one oyster vending machine in South Australia?
Ron Tomlian:Yeah in Coffin Bay. Okay, well, that would actually be fairly popular in other locations, too, I think. Well, I think they're trying it out and seeing if it's a goer.
Brenton Gowland:I reckon it'd work.
Ron Tomlian:It was working on that day, I picked up a couple of dozen.
Brenton Gowland:Anyway, we digress. Okay, so just recapping, on our last episode, Ron, we started a series on Demystifying Strategic Planning. Can you give us a bit of a summary just for those people who are listening? What were the five questions that you need to consider, when you're looking at strategic planning?
Ron Tomlian:If you're thinking about your organisation, and where it's going, the four questions that really need to be able to ask, and so I should say, are, where's the organisation now? Where do we want to be in the future? How are we going to get there? How will we know when we've arrived? And one that's, you know, as a result of the Simon Sinek's why are we even doing this in the first place?
Brenton Gowland:Correct. So if you want to get the full synopsis on that, we recommend that you listen to the last episode, which is Demystifying Strategic Planning. And really, that will give you a foundation for today's episode as well. But before we get into it, we need to mention our sponsors Ron.
Ron Tomlian:Yes, we do.
Brenton Gowland:So firstly, we've got Borough Markets. So they've given us space for this great studio that we're talking to you from. And Borough Markets are a digital marketing agency, that basically helps you get to every one that you want to get to on whatever device they're on, through using artificial intelligence to help you market your business better. So they're very much worth looking at. So look at www.boroughmarkets.com.au and that's spelt B-O-R-O-U-G-H Markets.com.au. Who else have we got Ron?
Ron Tomlian:We've got Adapt_CO, you can talk about Adapt_CO because that's you?
Brenton Gowland:Well, Adapt_CO is me and it's starting to find its shape. And funnily enough, what Adapt_CO helps businesses do is find their shape, usually through sales and marketing, strategic help. And then that usually turns into some sort of strategic planning, which is what we're talking about today. And then we help people execute that. So I will go into a business and help them develop their strategic plan. And then I will help them execute it. That is basically what Adapt_CO is doing at the moment and slowly collecting a few people along the sides that are helping with the services.
Ron Tomlian:Fantastic.
Brenton Gowland:The other one is SA Business Builders. Now that is a network of business professionals here in Adelaide, where we focus on building quality relationships. And we will be starting to talk about when those events are going to be happening in the next few weeks because we're going to be starting the planning for SA Business Builders events soon.
Ron Tomlian:And we're out of the doldrums of COVID. So hopefully we'll be doing that in the next couple of weeks. So we're starting to plan the next one the next several weeks. That's fantastic.
Brenton Gowland:It is good because all the restrictions are starting to ease and all the venues are back to 75% capacity, which is a great thing.
Ron Tomlian:Fantastic.
Brenton Gowland:Indeed. So now getting on to the episode. We are here today to talk about question number one, which is?
Ron Tomlian:Where are we now?
Brenton Gowland:And last time we spoke we gave the analogy of a map. So when you need to take a journey and strategic planning is really like planning how you're going to take the journey. If you want to start from point A to get to point B you need to know where you are you need to know where point A is firstly, so that you can start to plan your journey. And so today, we're talking about how to work out where you are as a business. And, Ron, I'm going to put this to you, what things should we be thinking about to actually understand where we're at as a business right now?
Ron Tomlian:Well the first thing I'd like to say is, a lot of people like to think they already know where they are. And it's a bad assumption to make, because the whole process of going through determining where you are is a series of questions. And unless you are asking those questions and actively trying to answer them, you really don't have a very good idea of where you are. And what I'm talking about is, where are we in the big wide world? So it's what I call the macro environment, you know, things that are gonna affect us from outside that we have no control over. Where are we in terms of our industry, and the things that you know, our competitors, and our customers, and all those things that directly affect our business on a day to day basis? And then finally, where are we internally? And that means, what are the resources of the organisation? What are the capabilities of the organisation? What are our processes, and systems and processes are often left out of the equation altogether? So it's about funnelling information from the big wide world down to our specific situation in our business? And looking at all of those aspects of what environments we're in that were able to answer the question, where are we now? So it's a structured approach.
Brenton Gowland:Okay. So what I'm hearing is if we're a business, and we want to sit down and start doing strategic planning, before we get to the planning part, we need to work out where we are. And to do that, we need to start asking a lot of questions about the business itself and about the environment, the business works in, both locally in our industry, and then of course, internationally.
Ron Tomlian:And sometimes things that are happening internationally won't have an effect on our business, we discount those. But it's worth considering. And one of the the methodologies that's used in terms of the macro environment is what's called a PESTEL analysis. Yep, that's just an acronym for what's the political environment? What's the economic environment? What's the social environment? And in other words, what's happening to the demographics and so on of our customers and competitors? What's the technological environment? Has that changing? What's the ecological or green environment? You know, as opposed to environments in general? And what's the legal environment? How's that changing all of those, that just gives you a framework for thinking about different aspects of the macro environment that we work within,
Brenton Gowland:Well, we've seen some incredible examples of that recently. And if you know, sometimes you think these things don't affect us, depending on what your business is like. But COVID's kind of really brought a focus to the fact that, let's take the car industry, for example, getting supply is really difficult. So you're waiting three to six months for a vehicle. That really is going to impact how you do things. I bought a fridge recently, I've had to wait one and a half months to get delivery of that because supply chain is affected. And you've got a chip shortage all around the world, and so forth, which is affecting both computers and cars and anything with technology, then there's a whole number of factors that are really public at the moment. But then there's other factors around what's permeating the thinking of businesses at the moment, like the green and sustainability aspects and so forth. So what I would ask is, if you're a business, an SME, how would you actually determine what those factors are? How would you get that information?
Ron Tomlian:Well, the first thing is to look at, is to ask yourself the questions. What's happening in the political environment that might affect us? What's happening in the in the economic environment? And as you quite rightly pointed out, these things are changing on a continual basis. So to say, look, every time I'm going to do my strategic plan, maybe once every three years or five years and so on, I'm going to do this and then I'm going to shut my eyes to all this stuff, is kind of crazy. You should be doing, organisations should be doing environmental planning, or environmental scanning, I should say, on a continual basis. That means devoting some of your management time management thinking to what's going on, that's going to have an effect on us. And does this affect our strategic planning? Or does this affect our, the way the organisation is going to react to its environment? So that means it's probably something that should be on most people's agenda, at least once a quarter?
Brenton Gowland:Yeah, agreed.
Ron Tomlian:So that they're doing, their starting to see, maybe you use a radar as an analogy. Where you're starting to see some things happen way off on the edge of the radar. And as it gets closer to the organisation, you know, okay, we need to do something about this.
Brenton Gowland:Yeah, correct.
Ron Tomlian:So, environmental scanning gives you the capacity to do that. And one way of achieving this is to have people on your executive team or your management team to take responsibility for one aspect of the PESTEL analysis, let's say social, you know, ageing population. For some organisations, no effect. For other organisations has like Aged Care, has a massive impact. So what are the things that are going to affect our organisation and what's happening in that particular domain that will have an impact on our thinking, and our decision making going forward.
Brenton Gowland:So to work out macro, what I'm hearing is that we can get people from our executive to be responsible for different areas, and for gleaning information and so forth, but we have to have our radar out. So in other words, we're scanning the news. We're scanning the media, we're listening to what's being said. And I'm sure we can also get reports like there's IBIS reports, and what else is there?
Ron Tomlian:Oh there's Industry Association reports on various industries that you're involved in. There's information about your competitors. There's information from intelligence. Now, this is an area that I think, and we're getting into the micro area. But this is an area that I think is really badly done in organisations. And what I mean by that is this. We're all looking for intelligence on what's going on in our marketplace. And let's suppose I, as a dedicated employee, find out some good information, some good juicy information about one of our competitors, what do I do with it, and most organisations don't have a place or a person that I can go to and say, I've got some good information. And so oftentimes, these things get lost, not because of negligence, but because people just don't know what to do with the information.
Brenton Gowland:You bring up a good point. And, you know, you can build these things into just regular weekly meatings. Like let's say, for instance, you had a BD meeting or operations meeting, but particularly BD, because the BD people are generally out in the market, You can basically have a part where you've got either client intelligence, like what's happening with our clients, and industry intelligence, you know, what am I hearing when I go out to events and talking? But to your point, where do you record that, the very least you would record it in meeting minutes. So it's so important to keep minutes of meetings, but then there needs to be some mechanism. And different businesses could do it differently. But simply someone recording those things and listing it somewhere. And, you know,
Ron Tomlian:Having a central depository of information that people feel comfortable, when I put this information is not going to be wasted.
Brenton Gowland:And all it needs to be is a spreadsheet or even just a word doc, where you just keep adding to it and you can, at the end of a quarter you can start looking at those things might be short, little paragraphs or whatever. But that information becomes so valuable over time, you know, just small insights and so forth. But before we get too cracking into that, can you just explain the difference between the macro and the micro?
Ron Tomlian:Okay, the macro environment is, as I said before, the big wide world that we operate in, and in, it consists of all the things that may affect our, the environments that we work within, like interest rates in the in the economic sector, interest rates going up interest rates going down, that might have an effect on our organisation. That's a macro economic event, if you like.
Brenton Gowland:Yep. So to learn about, you know, where we are, we need to understand the macro, the much broader things. So the global impacts?
Ron Tomlian:Yeah, and, you know, from an economic point of view, there's plenty of information out there from banks, from government, about what expectations that are into the future that will affect our planning horizon.
Brenton Gowland:And so then micro is our industry, our local geography, etc.
Ron Tomlian:Yeah, the micro is more of where I operate, or where my organisation operates. You know, it's about my customers, what's affecting them? What changes are they having, what are their preferences? And a lot of this can come from just talking to your own people who are at the coalface.
Brenton Gowland:Yeah.
Ron Tomlian:What are customers asking for? What are their complaints?
Brenton Gowland:Well, that's what we were just talking about with, you know, gathering intelligence, because it's you know, then our staff become basically, our senses or feelers out in the marketplace to actually determine what's going on. So we need to listen.
Ron Tomlian:Exactly we need to listen actively, by actually listening to that, but having a mechanism where they can put this information into the system.
Brenton Gowland:Now Ron, this actually brings up an interesting point, because how long will it take to gather this information, because most people when they do strategic planning, they're like, right, we're going to do strategic planning. So they just kind of go, right, we're gonna just jump into it. So let's understand everyone, tell us what you think this sounds like. It's gonna take a lot of time.
Ron Tomlian:And it's a process of environmental scanning. And it should be going on on a continual basis. If you're, let's suppose for the sake of argument, you want to do your strategic planning with a board, or with the owners, next week! You don't start scrambling now for that information, it's looking at the repository of information you've been able to collect and being able to determine what are the salient things that we want to put on the table? If you start collecting that information a week beforehand and give your subordinates a task to find the information on you know what's going on in our marketplace? Chances are you'll get rubbish information. And as you can appreciate if you start with rubbish information.
Brenton Gowland:Rubbish in rubbish out.
Ron Tomlian:Yes. What's your strategic plan going to be based on?
Brenton Gowland:You know, this is really interesting because it sort of indicates that strategic planning is not just a one stop shop. It's a constant activity.
Ron Tomlian:Yep, and we'll talk about that later on when we talk about how we revise the plan. And it's, you know, I've seen some great strategic plans, that might as well have been gold plated. And they, they make great doorstops, because they never used again, a strategic plan, in its best format, is something, it's an active document that is getting revised on a continual basis. It doesn't mean you keep changing direction, it means you keep changing, or keep nuancing it according to the changes in the environment.
Brenton Gowland:Okay, so we've covered macro pretty well, we've started to look at micro. So micro is our environment and our staff. And we've talked about, you know, listening to our staff and hearing what they're perceiving out in the marketplace.
Ron Tomlian:And don't forget in the micro environment suppliers as well.
Brenton Gowland:Well I was just going to ask you, what else should we be talking about in the micro space?
Ron Tomlian:Competitors, customers, suppliers, regulators, the government, media, anyone who can affect our industry. Michael Porter did a great analysis, built a great tool called Porter's Five Forces use that as a basis for your thinking in this area. So you don't have to reinvent the wheel. There's plenty of techniques and formats out there, that people can use as a basis for doing this analysis. So don't, don't start from scratch. Start from finding out the type of things that other people have used.
Brenton Gowland:But us as a normal business operating, no matter where we are, we can start by asking questions, and then listening to our staff, listening to what's going on. And then doing some research. For instance, you talked about suppliers, you can go around and interview suppliers, find out what they think, how can I improve all that kind of rich information that will actually be a good baseline for you.
Ron Tomlian:People underestimate the fact that, I have to go out and do market research. No, you don't. I'm not saying market research isn't important, quite the opposite. But you can do some of this work yourself. And you should be doing some of it to stay in touch with your customers.
Brenton Gowland:Like anything, if you get into the habit of doing it, it becomes easier and easier and easier and more valuable. So we've covered off on macro, we've talked about micro let's talk about internal, because these are the three areas that help us determine where we are on the map, right?
Ron Tomlian:That's right. And that's looking at the resources that you've got. And we're talking there about capital resources, we're talking about human resources, we're talking about systems and processes that you have within the organisation. We're talking about the type of things that allow you to operate in your marketplace. So what it what are the strengths? And what are the weaknesses, and we'll get to the typical SWOT analysis later on, but it's important that you understand if I'm looking to do something in the future, do I have the capabilities to do it? And if I don't, what do I need to get to be able to do?
Brenton Gowland:Sure.
Ron Tomlian:So that's what you're trying to do now. What is my situation internally, and it comes down to things like culture, and values? And people go, oh this is all wishy washy stuff, but it's really critical and important. What are the attitudes of your people? What is the culture that you have? And just as importantly, what is, why are you doing this?
Brenton Gowland:Well it's like back to that map analogy, if we understand what the culture is now. And we know that we need to move that we need to understand where we are to then be able to shift it to the next place, right? What are the rules? What are the thinking habits, we need to break? How are we going to go about that. So it's vitally important that we understand all of those things, particularly what the culture is in the business side is very valuable.
Ron Tomlian:Because, don't forget, this is how we're going to engage with the environment into the future, we need to understand what we're good at what we're not good at.
Brenton Gowland:So back to the question, how do we go about finding this information Ron? We're a small business owner or a medium sized business owner, and we need to find this information, how?
Ron Tomlian:Well the internal analysis is done within your organisation? So it's about you making judgement calls on, do we have the capability? So it's doing things like understanding what skills your people have, what knowledge they have? What skills do we have?
Brenton Gowland:That's a HR kind of activity?
Ron Tomlian:Absolutely, I mean, this is this is where the HR department comes, for those organisations that have one, comes into its own, in to being able to. What information do you have about our people, that allows us to make an assessment of what resources human resources we have, what capabilities we have, looking at your systems, and this is an area that's often completely disregarded in strategic planning, what systems do I have, and I'm not talking about IT - alone! I'm talking about what systems we have for engaging with our customers, what systems we have for meeting their needs. So this is the critical business systems of the organisation and the support systems that allow you to operate an organisation, like your planning, like your financial management, like human resources. So all of this and there's nothing new about any of this. This is all the same concepts that are used in quality systems or business excellence systems. So again, you don't need to reinvent the wheel. You need to understand what are the processes that we have in our organisation? And are we Pro, are we, what are we doing to improve those processes over time? Do we have a system for improving the processes within our system, and if you don't, you need to develop one. But that's part of your strategic plan.
Brenton Gowland:Yep.
Ron Tomlian:We need to get capability in this area.
Brenton Gowland:And look, the other thing that I think you should really, as a business, look is actually talking to your staff, because I find that if you interview the staff, you'll be really surprised at what comes out. And that helps create a baseline, it helps answer questions about culture, etc. And I find three questions that are really good to ask your staff is what do you see in the future? Where do you think we can be in five years? What do you what's your personal vision for the company? And that's very interesting, because you can start to tell, you know, when people are out and maybe different roles within the company, you wouldn't necessarily do this, but certainly with your management team, and maybe the next rung down, if you ask them, what they see the challenges that you're facing are, that you'll get a fair bit of information, but then also, what solutions do they see. And that starts to give some information again, about baselining. Because what we're talking about with finding out where you are as creating a baseline, and the other really practical stuff that comes down to the finance department, like you were talking before is, where's our income coming from? And analysing what services are making the most money in my organisation? What are the key industries that we're making the most money from? Because once we understand those things, they can actually really help us make decisions about well, maybe we should be focusing on this or this or this?
Ron Tomlian:And certainly looking at trends within your organisation.
Brenton Gowland:Yes.
Ron Tomlian:And trends within your financial information and customer information to see what are the things that are becoming more popular? And what are the things that are attending to fall off?
Brenton Gowland:So when we're looking and kind of what have surmised about what we're talking about in terms of looking at internal, we're talking about finance. So where the money's coming from, what's happening, etc, etc. What industries?
Ron Tomlian:How am I funding myself into the future?
Brenton Gowland:So the finance parts, the HR part, and HR could really, you know, include culture and so forth. It's the sales, you know, what's going on out in the marketplace? Is there anything else from an internal perspective that we've missed?
Ron Tomlian:Processes. What processes do I have? And we've talked about that. It's really critical that you think about the processes that your organisation has, and how, what capability you have for improving those processes, because we deliver services and products to customers every day.
Brenton Gowland:Yes.
Ron Tomlian:And we do that on a routine basis. It's something we do over and over again. People are great at looking at projects. There is great knowledge of project management out there. Just about every manager has done some type of project management as part of their training, or as part of their university studies or whatever. But very few people focus on process management. And yet 90%, probably 95% of what we do every day is processes. So if we're not improving those processes, what are we doing to make ourselves more competitive in the marketplace?
Brenton Gowland:Yeah, fair enough. Okay, so we've looked at macro, we've looked at micro, and we've looked at internal. So how do we start summing this all up? To put it into a format that's usable for strategic planning?
Ron Tomlian:Well, I think, in my experiences, there's plenty of mechanisms that you can use, critical success factors. One thing that I've found useful is, after you've done all this analysis, asking the question, so what? And putting it into a framework. And the framework I like to use is the SWOT analysis,
Brenton Gowland:Okay, tried and true strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats.
Ron Tomlian:But it's really critical to understand why the SWOT analysis is usually a two by two matrix. Because if you look at the top line of the SWOT analysis has strengths and weaknesses. Bottom line is opportunities and threats. So it cuts down to things above the line are internal to the organisation, that means we have control over them there that there are strengths positive, and there are weaknesses negative. So there's things that we are really good at, and things that we need to improve on. Below the line is outside the organisation. We have no control over this, but it might be something that we can do, or it might be something that's going to come and bite us in the bum. Again, positives and negative. So what's really important in this SWOT analysis is that when we get to the opportunities area, we understand, and it's unfortunate part of the English language we use opportunity for I have an opportunity to do something. Yes, you do. But what is it that gives you the to do bit, that is the opportunity. So it's outside our control. So for the sake of argument, there's more demand for our products and services. That's an opportunity. We have no control over it, but we can do something about it. Sure what we do about it is something else again, but it's the opportunity to do something about it. Just like threats, we can't control the threats, but we can do something about them later on. But we have to identify what those threats are things that could hurt our organisation.
Brenton Gowland:Okay, so in recap, we're talking about the fact that working out where you are and doing that analysis is pretty much a constant thing. It's like having a radar in places we were talking about earlier and creating avenues to collect the information, maybe whether it's on a weekly, or monthly or quarterly basis that can then potentially be fed into some sort of framework like a SWOT analysis, like you were just talking about, that can then be incredibly useful when it comes to doing strategic planning. Because let's face it, if we know exactly where we are on the map, for instance, we were talking about the finance factor earlier, if we learned that bulk of our income is coming from one area, and another area is not necessarily providing it, it's either do we focus on that area and grow it? Or is it more beneficial for the company to focus on what's working and get rid of what's there?
Ron Tomlian:And you've just hit the nail on the head? It's all about where do I want to focus? So I've seen SWOT analysis with 20 items in each of the four quadrants. How useful is that in terms of helping you sort the wheat from the chaff in terms of what's important and what's not? Really, I like to say three or four things in each one of those quadrants, it's the really big ticket items, what's really important in terms of what we're capable of doing, just because we like each other, and it's a strength. Fantastic. But is it going to be relevant to our thinking about planning? Probably not. But if we have information and capability that no one else has, and then we can leverage that? Yeah, well, that's critical. So that should go on your strengths.
Brenton Gowland:Fair enough.
Ron Tomlian:And same with opportunities.
Brenton Gowland:So that's where the work comes in, really is taking all that information and then distilling it down into something that's usable, and something that's meaningful. And I always remember that saying, I wrote you a long letter, because I didn't have time to write you a short one. So that first part of strategic planning should really be distilling all the information that you've got from what's going on in your environment, what's going on within your business, what's going on within your staff, and turning that into something usable? That's the work.
Ron Tomlian:Because it's a basis for your decision making. And you don't want to have too much information, that you're considering when you're making big decisions about where the organization's going.
Brenton Gowland:Okay. Well, look, everyone, we hope you found that useful. That's a really good summary, I think of where we are on the map right now. Remember, the four questions were, where are we now? Where are we wanting to go? How are we going to get there? And how will we know when we've arrived? And then of course, the Simon Sinek, gosh, we're giving him such a plug.
Ron Tomlian:Oh, yeah. Well, he's kind of pluggable, really.
Brenton Gowland:But I know that that's the right thing to say. But we.
Ron Tomlian:Maybe you should cut that out.
Brenton Gowland:Fair enough. But that last question, the plus one, is why am I doing this anyway?
Ron Tomlian:Yeah. And and what's really important in that is the why is not for money. It's what motivates us to do this, what do we believe?
Brenton Gowland:And that comes back to the cultural question, right? Because like, I'm doing strategic planning with a business at the moment. And we just looked at the vision and the mission, and now we're looking at the values. And it really, you see the inspiration that people get by finding the right vision, it actually motivates them to actually go in a direction and actually, wow, I know why I'm part of this company.
Ron Tomlian:And look, quite frankly, I don't know if we have enough time to do this next time. But we could do an entire podcast on values.
Brenton Gowland:I think we'll leave that as a separate point. Maybe we'll do that after this series and we got a couple of people to interview so the next one in our series Ron is going to be?
Ron Tomlian:Where do we want to go?
Brenton Gowland:Where do we want to go? So we will forward to seeing you again. Just a quick reminder our sponsors they are Borough Markers, www.boroughmarkets.com.au, Adapt_CO and SA Business Builders. Okay, and we will see you next time and until then it's bye from me.
Ron Tomlian:And bye from me.
